Scourge of War: Waterloo! announced

[jomni]

HWN currently looks like HWLG on steroids. It's pretty but underneath it is the same game which is a continuous work in progress. The devs has not abandoned the project even HWLG but things keep changing.

It is actually playable at the current state but things just keep changing even the UI. They just can't find the best UI for the game that pleases everyone.

The game is quite simple actually.  U can give commands at Corps level or division level.  Point to a spot or change formations. Assign % reserves. Their doctrines will take care of the details. But there still this quirky unpolished feel in the game overall.  Again, they do the formations really well.

[ArizonaTank]

AT, are you talking about HW les Grognards or HW Napoleon (or maybe what you're saying applies to both)?  I was interested in HWLG for a long time but always held off buying because of its many well documented shortcomings, UI, etc. And had hopes for HWN, but it sounds like the game is in a "will probably never be completed" limbo, as has been the case for a few years now...

I'll almost certainly be picking up SOW Waterloo... but I still wonder about HW Napoleon (...kind of the same way that I wonder about the mysterious fate of Graviteam Tactics Mius Front, but that's a different story...)

My only experience was with HWLG.  The final version even had 1/1 soldier representation; you never see that anywhere else....  I actually liked the UI.  For me, the UI was actually very efficient once I learned it.  But I think folks didn't like the UI because it did not follow conventions, and that is understandable.  My biggest issue with HWLG was that it never had a dynamic grand tactical AI.  Once the battle plan was set, the computer stuck to it, no matter what.  It does not sound like this was fixed in HWN. 

Interestingly...IMHO SSI's Battles of Napoleon, in terms of features (not graphics or UI of course), still holds it's own in the Nappy arena, even after 25+ years....  The AI was pretty simple...but it was certainly dynamic.  Here's hoping we see it on GOG someday...

[sandman2575]

Thanks both for the feedback on HWLG/HWN. Glad to hear it hasn't been abandoned, but whenever I check the forums there seems a sense of hopelessness about its future. Lack of a dynamic tactical AI is a pretty humongous handicap, and at worst seems simply game-breaking.

The lack of 1:1 representation in SOW still bugs me. I understand the reasons, "it's a necessary concession" etc. etc. -- but there's something about seeing a 200-sprite "regiment" that makes for cognitive dissonance -- the game is clearly meant to portray a historically realistic battlefield, but the 1:4 or even 1:2 sprite to soldier ratio constantly reminds you that the realism is compromised by a layer of abstraction.

I'd feel a lot differently (a lot less positively) about games like Combat Mission if they didn't have 1:1 representation. But I understand scale is the problem. In the biggest engagements in CMRT, you might have 2 German battalions taking on roughly equivalent Soviet formations, and the result is huge -- awe inspiring, but also unwieldy and immensely time consuming to play.  I'm *still* working my way through the German campaign -- it has taken me many months. So, yeah, imagine trying to manage tens of thousands of soldiers on a Napoleonic battlefield.

Mostly I just want to have my cake and eat it too. I want to see what 100,000 men at Waterloo really looks like.  It would be incredible. And likely unplayable. But still...

[Philippe]

With all of this talk about 1:1 representation, just remember that Waterloo was by no means one of Napoleon's larger battles.  And in spite of all the media hype, it was really just a footnote to history.

If you want to see a big, important battle that really could have changed the course of history, take a look at Leipzig.  The armies there were huge because everybody who was anybody in Europe showed up (including a small contingent of Brits armed with Whinyate rockets) with well over half a million men on the field.

[Grim.Reaper]

On the developer's site, norb indicating he thinks release moved up to June 9th.....that would be great, if turns out to be true.

http://www.norbsoftdev.net/forum/96-discussion/67086-waterloo-game

[ArizonaTank]

With all of this talk about 1:1 representation, just remember that Waterloo was by no means one of Napoleon's larger battles.  And in spite of all the media hype, it was really just a footnote to history.

I think Napoleon, sitting on St. Helena, would have not agreed about Waterloo being a "footnote" in history.  :)

[Cyrano]

The hype, though, is part of the story.  Waterloo, whatever may be said of its military significance, has and had immense cultural importance.  There's a reason you can go to the Waterloo museum and see all of the cities, towns, and villages around the world that have been named after this little Belgian community.  I'd certain welcome counter-argument, but I think it's the first battle in history to have this effect.  The British Empire doesn't take the shape it does without this win...and, of course, Trafalgar.  Wellington is probably not PM without it.  The British army would likely have been reformed much sooner had not those who defended the old way had the shadow of the great victory on their side.

Now, is it typical of Napoleon and his armies?  Lots of good debate there on both sides.  Is it the biggest Napoleonic battle?  Not by a long shot.  Is it the "best" Napoleonic battle?  Oooh, another good question that's really not answerable in any dispositive way.  Calling it a footnote, though, is a bit much.

And here's hoping the success of this game leads to lots of OTHER battles and armies being offered!

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

[Grim.Reaper]

Looks like release confirmed for tomorrow some time after 2pm gmt

http://www.norbsoftdev.net/forum/96-discussion/67384-check-the-store-june-9th-after-2pm-gmt

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

There's a free online course on Wellington at Waterloo that is being offered by the University of Southampton via Futurelearn.

It's starting today (Jun 8th) and runs for 3 weeks.

https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/wellington-and-waterloo/

[ArizonaTank]

It has been released!!!  :)  Now I have to go find $50....:(

[jomni]

Releaassed!!!  :D

[Nefaro]

It has been released!!!  :)  Now I have to go find $50....:(

"Find" $50 for me, too, while you're there.

[ArizonaTank]

It has been released!!!  :)  Now I have to go find $50....:(

"Find" $50 for me, too, while you're there.

LOL...with Father's Day coming up...the plan is to shake down the kids....;)

[panzerde]

Bought, downloaded and installed, but no time to fire it up until after work.  >:(

[Sir Slash]

I imagine the big difference from the ACW games would be the cavalry combat? So I hope this is done well. The size of the armies I've seen on the few videos available look unmanageable. Looking forward to some thoughts and opinions on this one.