Scourge of War: Waterloo! announced

[Pete Dero]

Matthew from NorbSoftDev is showing one of the most requested feature of the game: the sandbox campaign (and a fight!)

[jomni]

Please tell me what the sprite ratio does and how to show more men for each unit?  I used 0 and 19(?) but don't notice any difference.

[ArizonaTank]

I am generally enjoying the game, and glad I made the plunge to purchase.  There are a lot of great features in the game.  And overall, the playability and immersion is wonderful. 

The one area where I think SoW: Waterloo gets just a "C" is in uniforms and formations.  Hopefully as the game engine matures, they can start to move towards getting these right.

HWLG has many issues...including playability and a slew of other things.  But it did get the uniforms and formations almost spot on.  In the screen shot below, you can see the Fr 72nd Regiment of Reille's Corps at Waterloo (the uniformologists out there would argue about the white plumes, and bearskins).  Marching in column by division the way it should look.  The Grenadiers are there with bearskins and red plumes at the back of the 2nd Battalion.  Voltiguers with yellow braiding on their shakos, and you can even see the sappers and green jacketed drummer in correct position between the two battalions.  Would love to see SoW get to this same spot on the uniform / formation spectrum. 



Here is a pretty good site describing column formations:
http://www.napolun.com/mirror/napoleonistyka.atspace.com/infantry_tactics_4.htm

[Cyrano]

I was wondering about that same thing...I have spent far too much time just marching men around and enjoying the process and trying experiments in attack and the like.

I wonder if it's a function of the scale not being 1:1?  Sort of like the argument in Shako about who gets to be the grenadiers and where do you put them when a battalion is only 12 or 15 figures in size?

One thing I'd have never thought to fault these guys for was not caring about this sort of thing so, perhaps granting them undeserved credit, I'm seeking an explanation...

[jomni]

And people curse the interface of Histwar.  SOW just implemented a similar right click pop up menu and veteran SOW users are complaining about it. But the developers are swearing by it. ;D
And it is actually easier to give orders at the corps and division level in Histwar because you can actually adjust the formation, frontage and even % reserves.  I ordered my division to form a line and they formed by attack columns one unit after another.   SOW just have too much micromanagement.  Flipping through the OOB in SOW seems to be easier.  I prefer it to the up-down-left-right-arrow of SOW because you have a mini oob tree on the screen itself.  The tactical map is also more readable.

Anyway enough with the ranting.  SOW also has good points especially the gameplay and was an excellent ACW game but it does fail to impress with regards to the Napoleonic era.  Yes. The French had mixed companies in a battalion and this wasn't depicted in SOW. 

As for the sounds,  I do not seem to hear the soldiers shout out commands in native language like Histwar.  Just trumpet calls.

[jomni]

Dev's reply regarding the controversial L'ordre mixte.

We built the formation but it became rather complex trying to figure out when the AI should and should not use the formation. A bit surprised Reb did not include it in the Grog toolbar at the division level. It would be for the player only though.

-Jim

Also some apologists state that it wasn't implemented in Warterloo.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3878334

[Cyrano]

One need not be an apologist for SoW:W to think so.  I'm unaware of any evidence for mixed order at Waterloo.  While, in some respects, this was a far better army than Boney had had for years, the argument of recent research is that the AdN was built too quickly and was simply to green to manage these convolutions.  In fact, it is argued, that the fire poured into the famous advance of the Guard ultimately forced these battalions into something of weird moving square.

Given the distortions between topography and terrain that was used by the folks at Norbsoft, this offering is being more and more described as an iteration of TTG on the PC.  I'm quite all right with that.

Also, while few are making it hereabouts, as a long-time player (and one time tester) for HW...well, courses for horses, and I've long been a defender of JMM, but his game will be finished shortly after Gilliam finishes Don Quixote.  SoW:W is, for me, the better game.

[Philippe]

I actually attended Michael Leggiere's Waterloo talk tonight at the Soldiers and Sailors Club on Lexington Avenue with my artist girlfriend.  She managed to stay awake through most of it, and was quite interested, partly because she didn't know much about the Waterloo campaign and it was all new to her.  The only thing she didn't quite get was the use of the word 'mask' as a verb, but by the end of the talk she had figured out what it meant.  NYMAS is hosting a couple more Waterloo lectures at a public library downtown in my neck of the woods next week.  Detailswill probably be on their website. If not my girlfriend picked up a flier and I can post the details as needed (I think it's the branch at 66 Leroy Street).

I think Leggiere would agree with me that Waterloo is really a footnote to history.  The important event was the defeat of Napoleon at Leipzig: everything else was a more or less inevitable consequence.  It would have been fun to ask him but someone was delivering a narcissistic monologue rant about how Wellington's flawless tactics won the battle of Waterloo (they weren't and they didn't), and it seemed more sensible to leave early and beat the crowd to the rickety stairs.

[Cyrano]

The notion that Leipzig made the conclusion of the Hundred Days foregone is simply untenable.

Heck, if Berthier hadn't been defenestrated and Davout given a field command instead of being left back at home, well, who knows...it's why alt-history is so much fun.  Give Leipzig its place, of course, but there's no need to denigrate Waterloo in the process.

[ArizonaTank]

Also, while few are making it hereabouts, as a long-time player (and one time tester) for HW...well, courses for horses, and I've long been a defender of JMM, but his game will be finished shortly after Gilliam finishes Don Quixote.  SoW:W is, for me, the better game.

Agree.  I think HW has the purest heart...but JMM is just too inconsistent as a developer to see his vision finished.  SoW doesn't really pass the grognard test...but it is still a good game and that is good enough for me.

[SirAndrewD]

his game will be finished shortly after Gilliam finishes Don Quixote. 

Considering Amazon just gave Gilliam a big content contract, I think you're incorrect.  It will likely be finished after. 

[panzerde]

I would love for Histwar Napoleon to be playable. I despair of it ever being so. SoW has evolved to be pretty groggy for the ACW games. It's clear that Waterloo was pushed out for the anniversary of the battle and development time was focused on making sure it didn't crash when played. I suspect we're going to see a lot of improvements over the coming months and years.

I do hope for a wider selection of battles. I get that Waterloo is the battle most known to lay people, but there any number of Napoleonic battles I'd rather play. Heck, just getting good scenarios for the rest of the battles in the 100 Days would be great.

My biggest frustration at the moment is that even though I'm playing at difficulties above normal, I'm not getting couriers. Now that I have the basics of the game down, I'm over having my troops move instantly when ordered. I'm off to see if I can sort that out...

[jomni]

It's clear that Waterloo was pushed out for the anniversary of the battle and development time was focused on making sure it didn't crash when played. I suspect we're going to see a lot of improvements over the coming months and years.

Confirmed:

The conversion to the new GUI system led to a number of issues. One was the map in the courier screen. We were not able to get it working to our satisfaction in time to make the release for the 200th Anniversary. It will return to the game.

My biggest frustration at the moment is that even though I'm playing at difficulties above normal, I'm not getting couriers. Now that I have the basics of the game down, I'm over having my troops move instantly when ordered. I'm off to see if I can sort that out...

Notice that too.  I'm now playing Veteran.  But not much orders delay for me because I tend to put eveyone in TC mode because of the very poor and non-existent divison and corps formation options.

Courier by difficulty setting:
Sesoned = Army
Veteran = Corps+
Historical = Division+
Grognard = Brigade+

To get the best feel is to go Historical or Grognard but I don't want to do HITS.  There is no way to mix and match options?

[panzerde]

Notice that too.  I'm now playing Veteran.  But not much orders delay for me because I tend to put eveyone in TC mode because of the very poor and non-existent divison and corps formation options.

Courier by difficulty setting:
Sesoned = Army
Veteran = Corps+
Historical = Division+
Grognard = Brigade+

To get the best feel is to go Historical or Grognard but I don't want to do HITS.  There is no way to mix and match options?

Yes. turn on "Custom" level and on that same options screen, in the upper right, you can set what level you want couriers. Just played a game like that and it was quite nice.


I'm tending to TC brigade commanders to get them into the general area I want, then set their stance and take them off TC. I might occasionally need to TC a battalion to plug a hole or something, but generally the AI commanders are doing a good job of putting their troops where they need to be. You just have to given them enough time to do it.

[jomni]

And where's the HITS option?  Nevermind, it's the view distance setting.