Scourge of War: Waterloo! announced

[panzerde]

I'm reading more about the courier system in Gettysburg (didn't play it a lot) and realized that the new right click context menu where you can chain commands in Waterloo is a graphical interface of the said courier system. Though commands are limited and only show the essential ones. How cool is that?

If you open the "courier bag" of the sub unit, all your previous commands are there written in text form.

That is pretty cool! I hadn't looked at that yet.

[panzerde]

Perhaps you should try some scenarios as the Prince of Orange.
And in the future, some of the Russian or Austrian corps commanders.
The French had the most experience, so starting off comparing yourself to them is unfair.

Actually, the issue is more a lack of familiarity with the UI and what I can do with it. I just figured out last night, for example (after I was done playing) that you can put a battalion or brigade in "Attack March" and they will not deploy into line when they get close to the enemy. So, you can simply issue an attack march order and have them double time until they hit an enemy and they'll melee. I've been trying to maneuver units close to a target and then hitting the charge button. That amount of micromanagement works up to division-sized engagements but is untenable (for me) at corps and above.

Also, I'm trying to win an assault that D'Erlon himself couldn't pull off...

I do think the "command simulation" part of the game fails a bit in the larger battles. As a Corps commander I shouldn't have to tell a battalion to do any of the above; that's what my brigadiers are for. It's absolutely vital to do so, though. The AI on it's own won't make that charge.

[jomni]

I'm kinda liking the courier mode better than that right click thingy and the buttons at the bottom of the screen.
The courier mode is quite detailed and flexible because of all the chaining options that you can do. 
But it is sometimes quicker to just do things using the right click menu and it can point at precise locations (more useful for commanding battalions).

Too bad the courier option is not yet as refined as SOW Gettysburg but in due time it will be improved and maybe modded.
The problem with the interface is that each mode of commanding (bottom buttons (default and grog mode), right click context menu, and courier mode) all have different capabilities and I end up using all those modes (except grog) to do some stuff because the other mode can't do it.  Now if all modes are equally capable, then I will just stick to one mode of play. 

[Nefaro]

Maybe one day some CO OP or PVP with some of our GH friends from here?

Also for SOW Gettysburg.

I think it would be great fun :)

Regards

I plan on it.  Eventually.

Haven't done much PC gaming in these past few months and I'm still not in much of a mood for some reason.   Longest hiatus evah.   :-\

[ArizonaTank]

I think one of the problems with some of the anal Nappy miniatures players is they look at this as just minis on the computer.  Some of the innovative features of SOW, like courier system, are not only lost on them, but completely misunderstood.

Not all of the "anal Nappy" players fall into that category I assure you...:)

[Asid]

I plan on it.  Eventually.

Great  O0

Haven't done much PC gaming in these past few months and I'm still not in much of a mood for some reason.   Longest hiatus evah.   :-\

Still???? That has been a while  :'(  ...Step back into the light   :)

[Asid]

Updated Grog Toolbar Mod

From Norb:

Reb will post a thread with the mod here. It's not a good idea to have it as part of the game. It's his baby and supporting it from the boards will allow him the freedom and accessibility to develop to the community. But since it was shipped with the game, I'm just trying to make sure it doesn't crash the game when enabled.

I am attaching the latest version. So you can just delete the mod and replace it with this and it should work for everyone. Later Reb will start a thread where he can release updates.

Download:  http://www.norbsoftdev.net/media/kunena/attachments/63/ToolbarExpanded-Grog.zip

Mod location: \Scourge of War Waterloo\Mods

[jomni]

From Jim of Norbsoft

Our priority has always been to make the best simulation possible of the experience of commanding troops in combat. This is distinct from making a simulation of the battle. At the end of the day if you have a real appreciation for what it was like to sit in that commanders saddle and have to make those decisions in real time then we have succeeded. As long as the troops react in a way that allows you fight the battle correctly we do not worry about drill book perfection. It is that command experience that we are after.

Seems fair. The simulation of command is great. You appreciate this once you stop playing it like a RTS,  or tabletop game. I really think writing those courier messages is the way to go when commanding Divison and larger formations.  Just give orders to the generals below you and let them do the fighting. Must not be tempted to micromanage each individual 3d unit like it's Total War or a minis game. Historically accurate visuals and formations become secondary.

[Cyrano]

James Allen ("Out of Eight") is in no way amused:

His conclusions re: sandbox and the campaign aren't relevant to my experience of playing the game, but his bill of grievance against the subordinate A.I. sounds to comport with the experience of many hereabout.

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

[bayonetbrant]

Boggit's back, and drops a nicely-screenshotted AAR for your anniversary enjoyment.

Bawb, try not to have any flashbacks.

[ArizonaTank]

James Allen ("Out of Eight") is in no way amused:

His conclusions re: sandbox and the campaign aren't relevant to my experience of playing the game, but his bill of grievance against the subordinate A.I. sounds to comport with the experience of many hereabout.

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

Stupid AI tricks are frustrating me as well.  Like the video, I am seeing the AI really mess up my battle-plans.  Getting frustrating.  Considering shelving the game until it's fixed.

[panzerde]

Ok, it's not just me, then. I'm all in favor of the idea of the AI commanders having their own personalities, and love that in SOWGB, but this seems a lot less controllable. I frequently can't get a brigade to do anything close to what I'm ordering, even if I've TC'd the brigade CO.

Then there's the issue where you frequently simply can not put French troops in La Haie Sainte after you drive off the Allies. You can't get VPs for it then, which are absolutely crucial in the D'Erlon scenario. Sometimes it works, but 2/3 of the time, it doesn't.

I just played a divisional scenario where despite having a brigade on "Hold at all costs" the commander insisted on aggressively attacking the enemy in front of him, getting his brigade wildly out of position. We're talking Peach Orchard levels of out of position. Meanwhile, the other brigade simply refused - even with the brigade CO TC'd - to break off combat with Hougoumont despite repeated "Retreat your Unit" orders.

I'm confident that NorbDevSoft and Matrix will clean this up, but like "To End All Wars" this was pushed to hit the anniversary date and the warts are showing a bit. I do like the game, but the longer I play the more I'm convinced that it requires a lot of micromanagement at the battalion level in its current state. Watching the Matrix guy play today during the Twitch stream I see him doing exactly that.

Napoleonic combat is not sufficiently different from ACW combat that the skills I learned playing SOWGB for years should be as lacking as they seem to be when playing SOWWL. Something needs some tuning.

[jomni]

James Allen ("Out of Eight") is in no way amused:

His conclusions re: sandbox and the campaign aren't relevant to my experience of playing the game, but his bill of grievance against the subordinate A.I. sounds to comport with the experience of many hereabout.

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

Stupid AI tricks are frustrating me as well.  Like the video, I am seeing the AI really mess up my battle-plans.  Getting frustrating.  Considering shelving the game until it's fixed.

Isn't that a depiction of real life?

[RyanE]

Ok, it's not just me, then. I'm all in favor of the idea of the AI commanders having their own personalities, and love that in SOWGB, but this seems a lot less controllable. I frequently can't get a brigade to do anything close to what I'm ordering, even if I've TC'd the brigade CO.

Then there's the issue where you frequently simply can not put French troops in La Haie Sainte after you drive off the Allies. You can't get VPs for it then, which are absolutely crucial in the D'Erlon scenario. Sometimes it works, but 2/3 of the time, it doesn't.

I just played a divisional scenario where despite having a brigade on "Hold at all costs" the commander insisted on aggressively attacking the enemy in front of him, getting his brigade wildly out of position. We're talking Peach Orchard levels of out of position. Meanwhile, the other brigade simply refused - even with the brigade CO TC'd - to break off combat with Hougoumont despite repeated "Retreat your Unit" orders.

I'm confident that NorbDevSoft and Matrix will clean this up, but like "To End All Wars" this was pushed to hit the anniversary date and the warts are showing a bit. I do like the game, but the longer I play the more I'm convinced that it requires a lot of micromanagement at the battalion level in its current state. Watching the Matrix guy play today during the Twitch stream I see him doing exactly that.

Napoleonic combat is not sufficiently different from ACW combat that the skills I learned playing SOWGB for years should be as lacking as they seem to be when playing SOWWL. Something needs some tuning.

Is there anything to clean up?  Isn't that the whole point of the game system.  You depend on the subordinates and they don't always do what you ask.  SOW wants to put you in a somewhat real-life position of the commanders on the ground.  You have to plan around the people under you.  Its not miniatures where all men are at your beck and call.

[jomni]

Agree. But players expect their guys to do proper drills learned from military school.  Sometimes the drills performed by the pixel troops are funny . Like the circle that they form when orders to retreat and the snake like pivoting.