NATO considering policy re-think

Started by Mr. Bigglesworth, July 06, 2015, 10:58:54 AM

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Mr. Bigglesworth

July 06, 2015, 10:58:54 AM
"The chill in relations with Russia would be lasting because Putin's survival in power "is linked to permanent confrontation with the West," the diplomat said."

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSKCN0PG18E20150706?irpc=9
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
- Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III, 1598

JasonPratt

#1
July 07, 2015, 02:10:33 PM
Quick, dissolve NATO because Putin doesn't like it!  ::)
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mirth

#2
July 08, 2015, 06:26:47 PM
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OJsDad

#3
July 08, 2015, 06:42:05 PM
US Army announced yesterday it's downsizing again by 40,000.
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Boggit

#4
July 11, 2015, 08:01:14 PM
Quote from: OJsDad on July 08, 2015, 06:42:05 PM
US Army announced yesterday it's downsizing again by 40,000.
Will 40,000 really make a huge difference to capability?

Man for man, the US probably has more budget spent than anywhere else in the world. With the investment it gets, it is easily - as a whole - the most effective conventional force in the world, even if it is not the biggest.
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LongBlade

#5
July 11, 2015, 08:11:37 PM
Quote from: Boggit on July 11, 2015, 08:01:14 PM
Quote from: OJsDad on July 08, 2015, 06:42:05 PM
US Army announced yesterday it's downsizing again by 40,000.
Will 40,000 really make a huge difference to capability?

The problem with the current Sequestration-mandated budget cuts isn't the numbers per se, but rather where the cuts are implemented. In this case, it's the wrong 40,000 and it will have a negative impact.
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Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

bayonetbrant

#6
July 11, 2015, 08:45:39 PM
Quote from: Boggit on July 11, 2015, 08:01:14 PMMan for man, the US probably has more budget spent than anywhere else in the world.


We spend a TON of it on R&D and then sell the outcomes to everyone else.  A lot of that budget doesn't directly impact the foxhole strength of the units.
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pawelj

#7
July 14, 2015, 10:35:26 AM
Quote from: JasonPratt on July 07, 2015, 02:10:33 PM
Quick, dissolve NATO because Putin doesn't like it!  ::)
The sad reality is that some politicians in Germany and Italy do think like that seriously.
"Britain and France had to choose between war and dishonour. They chose dishonour. They will have war." - Winston Churchill

airboy

#8
July 14, 2015, 01:19:44 PM
Many former Warsaw Pact nations are now in NATO.

This includes Poland, Romania and Bulgaria.

It also includes some of the Baltic States.

The possibility of a land war in Europe with Putin in the Baltics or in the Balkans is not far fetched at all.

See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO

pawelj

#9
July 15, 2015, 10:35:44 AM
Quote from: airboy on July 14, 2015, 01:19:44 PM
Many former Warsaw Pact nations are now in NATO.

This includes Poland, Romania and Bulgaria.

It also includes some of the Baltic States.

The possibility of a land war in Europe with Putin in the Baltics or in the Balkans is not far fetched at all.

See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO
Actually the possibility of land war would happen only if Putin miscalculates NATO response.
Russian policy is always very cautious,and they act only is they have an assured chance of success, with little comeback. They would move on the Baltic states only if they were sure NATO will not act.
If Ukraine responded more forcefully last year against the first appearance of the Russian "Green Men" in Crimea, they would have been pulled out quickly by Russia, and the  whole mess would have been avoided with Ukraine holding on to Crimea.
AS it happens Russia is not pressing their aggression more active because they believe their own propaganda that the US was involved in Ukraine, and they are not sure what US will do if more pressure is applied on Ukraine. At the moment they are trying to hold on to the gains. If some extra acreage fall their way they will take it, but not expect all out grab for Ukraine, unless thing change to give them assurance of easy win.
"Britain and France had to choose between war and dishonour. They chose dishonour. They will have war." - Winston Churchill

pawelj

#10
July 15, 2015, 10:39:09 AM
Two top US generals who are next candidates for the top jobs at the Pentagon testified in Congress that Russia represents now the greatest and even existential treat, before China, Iran, North Korea, with ISIS distant fifth.
"Britain and France had to choose between war and dishonour. They chose dishonour. They will have war." - Winston Churchill

Mr. Bigglesworth

#11
July 15, 2015, 12:19:13 PM
Quote from: pawelj on July 15, 2015, 10:35:44 AM
Quote from: airboy on July 14, 2015, 01:19:44 PM
Many former Warsaw Pact nations are now in NATO.

This includes Poland, Romania and Bulgaria.

It also includes some of the Baltic States.

The possibility of a land war in Europe with Putin in the Baltics or in the Balkans is not far fetched at all.

See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO
Actually the possibility of land war would happen only if Putin miscalculates NATO response.
Russian policy is always very cautious,and they act only is they have an assured chance of success, with little comeback. They would move on the Baltic states only if they were sure NATO will not act.
If Ukraine responded more forcefully last year against the first appearance of the Russian "Green Men" in Crimea, they would have been pulled out quickly by Russia, and the  whole mess would have been avoided with Ukraine holding on to Crimea.
AS it happens Russia is not pressing their aggression more active because they believe their own propaganda that the US was involved in Ukraine, and they are not sure what US will do if more pressure is applied on Ukraine. At the moment they are trying to hold on to the gains. If some extra acreage fall their way they will take it, but not expect all out grab for Ukraine, unless thing change to give them assurance of easy win.

Ukraine would not have been able to stop Russia taking Crimea.
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
- Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III, 1598

Mr. Bigglesworth

#12
July 15, 2015, 12:29:14 PM
Quote from: pawelj on July 15, 2015, 10:39:09 AM
Two top US generals who are next candidates for the top jobs at the Pentagon testified in Congress that Russia represents now the greatest and even existential treat, before China, Iran, North Korea, with ISIS distant fifth.

I don't see ISIS as distant 5th. They are a return to old fashioned war that destroys all remains of the previous culture. It destroys lives. Most modern conflicts have been fairly light on the civilian population compared to the rape, killing, culture of isis.
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
- Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III, 1598

bayonetbrant

#13
July 15, 2015, 01:27:44 PM
as an existential threat, ISIS is pretty low - they are not a threat to the existence of the US.  They're a thread to plenty of other things, but they're not invading / conquering / destroying / dismantling the US.  They're just not.
The key to surviving this site is to not say something which ends up as someone's tag line - Steelgrave

"their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

Mr. Bigglesworth

#14
July 15, 2015, 01:58:34 PM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on July 15, 2015, 01:27:44 PM
as an existential threat, ISIS is pretty low - they are not a threat to the existence of the US.  They're a thread to plenty of other things, but they're not invading / conquering / destroying / dismantling the US.  They're just not.

There has been no news reports of them trying to cross the water for attacks? I thought they had massive amounts of funding?
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
- Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III, 1598
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