Sandra Bland Traffic Stop

[Boggit]

I'm quite calm, this is an intellectual exploration issue for me. It's unfortunate I probably know about 4x as much US history as the average US college student.

By 4x you mean  - Xplore Xpand Xploit and Xterminate! How else can you run a space program?

[Boggit]

This Bland story is terrible but the moral is the same for both sides: don't be a dick and there is a very good chance that everythng will end peacefully, even if you're black. Everyone is so angry today at everything. Everyone...cops and civilians...

Well I have. And I'm white, 55, and never given a cop lip in my life. But the Barney Fife who pulled my wife and I over when we were taking my 98 year old great aunt home from the hospital treated us like terrorists because I was doing five over the limit, then came within moments of beating my ass because he misunderstood an answer I gave. I agree that you need to be polite and follow lawful orders, but let's not believe that those things alone will deter a bad cop with an attitude. I've known many good cops and been related to quite a few, but I've also been there to see a very violent, corrupt cop physically fight a good cop who was trying to calm him down, and I listened to a retired Chicago cop brag about all the drugs his unit planted because somehow he thought I was a kindred soul.

Seriously.....how many videos do we have to see of cops beating a person half to death while yelling "stop resisting"? And where would this discussion even be without videos?

Just for the sake of argument......check out http://photographyisnotacrime.com/ sometimes. Believe me, the stuff you see in the mainstream media is just the tip of the blue iceberg.

There's plenty of excellent cops out there, but there's always a few complete arseholes, zealots and the like who shouldn't be in the job. It is a failure of the recruitment and training system that they remain in the job. Clean up the system so it is more robust and you'll start to get the right people with the right attitude. I know there are issues in recruitment, and proper monitoring, but unless it is done who guards the guardians? You can't have a gestapo attitude if you want to have the public work with you. However you look at it, police officers are public servants not the other way around. I'm not saying they should silently take abuse, but they should act professionally and not on whim.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I'm quite calm, this is an intellectual exploration issue for me. It's unfortunate I probably know about 4x as much US history as the average US college student.

By 4x you mean  - Xplore Xpand Xploit and Xterminate! How else can you run a space program?

You got it. Btw, M31 is mine. I am here on vacation.  :-p

[jejo68]

well lets see. depression, suicidal tendency and the fact that your own family refuse to bail you out of jail. you think that might be a cause to commit suicide ?
oh and incidently its the same Family that now cry over how wonderfull a person she was.

You're right. Better that she's dead.  ::)

now your projecting.
point to where I said she was better off dead ?

[mirth]

well lets see. depression, suicidal tendency and the fact that your own family refuse to bail you out of jail. you think that might be a cause to commit suicide ?
oh and incidently its the same Family that now cry over how wonderfull a person she was.

You're right. Better that she's dead.  ::)

now your projecting.
point to where I said she was better off dead ?

I was reacting to your sarcastic comment about her being a 'wonderful person'. Who said she was? What difference does it make? If she wasn't a 'wonderful person' does it make it okay for her to have been treated the way she was in during the traffic stop. Did she get what she had coming?

[jejo68]

well lets see. depression, suicidal tendency and the fact that your own family refuse to bail you out of jail. you think that might be a cause to commit suicide ?
oh and incidently its the same Family that now cry over how wonderfull a person she was.

You're right. Better that she's dead.  ::)

now your projecting.
point to where I said she was better off dead ?

I was reacting to your sarcastic comment about her being a 'wonderful person'. Who said she was? What difference does it make? If she wasn't a 'wonderful person' does it make it okay for her to have been treated the way she was in during the traffic stop. Did she get what she had coming?

uhm I gave some concrete examples on why she probably commited suicide. how is that being sarcastic ?
The only place I was being anywhere near sarcastic was in response to her Family WHO now cries because she was such a wonderfull person, but when she needed their help they refused. And yes I think they are scumbags just in case your wondering. First because they didnt want to help her and now they got all dollarsigns in their eyes.

[Airborne Rifles]

Not specifically related to this case, but I just wanted to speak against some of the misconceptions about suicide. It is NOT a rational act. Successful people with no apparent reason kill themselves all the time. It's a major issue we're dealing with in the Army right now. I lost a friend after my last trip to Afghanistan. She was a very successful officer, going places in the army, hadn't seen anything particularly bad, involved in a good church and bible study with people who cared about her. But she struggled with depression and one night a few months after our brigade cam home she decided to end her life. No logical reason or motive. There is a lot more going on inside people's hearts and minds than just a rational weighing of their circumstances.

Specific to this case, probably the cop was out of line, who knows why. Unacceptable, in any regard. We should expect high standards of our law enforcement, and they should expect it of each other (I think they usually do, under increasingly trying circumstances. But I just think it is a really far leap from admitting that the cop was out of line to assuming that he murdered the woman in her cell. The DA didn't find any reason to prosecute, and while I sure that isn't a airtight indication of innocence, in this day and age it seems this sort of case is more likely than not to err on the side of going to trial.

Anyway, just wanted to give my to cents about the suicide issue.

[LongBlade]

Not specifically related to this case, but I just wanted to speak against some of the misconceptions about suicide. It is NOT a rational act. Successful people with no apparent reason kill themselves all the time. It's a major issue we're dealing with in the Army right now. I lost a friend after my last trip to Afghanistan. She was a very successful officer, going places in the army, hadn't seen anything particularly bad, involved in a good church and bible study with people who cared about her. But she struggled with depression and one night a few months after our brigade cam home she decided to end her life. No logical reason or motive. There is a lot more going on inside people's hearts and minds than just a rational weighing of their circumstances.

Specific to this case, probably the cop was out of line, who knows why. Unacceptable, in any regard. We should expect high standards of our law enforcement, and they should expect it of each other (I think they usually do, under increasingly trying circumstances. But I just think it is a really far leap from admitting that the cop was out of line to assuming that he murdered the woman in her cell. The DA didn't find any reason to prosecute, and while I sure that isn't a airtight indication of innocence, in this day and age it seems this sort of case is more likely than not to err on the side of going to trial.

Anyway, just wanted to give my to cents about the suicide issue.

Excellent points all the way around.

That said, this is a curious circumstance and I think some kind of independent investigation outside of the local DA is warranted.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

There was a movie about the PTSD, reajustment problems of people returning to normal life. I don't remember the name of it.

I watched a video last night on youtube about the female inmates of Detroit's prison system. One woman was released after begging for a last chance. First day out she gets scared, not knowing how to cope off the streets, so she goes back to some nasty lifestyle. She gets thrown back in jail and finds out her first day out her stupidity got her hep C. She will be dead in 6 months without a liver transplant, which is not going to happen.

How many people cannot cope with being un-institutionalized? Im guessing her life was structured, she knew what to do, then the door slams, she is blowing in the wind. I can imagine the stress of that. It does not seem end it worthy alone, but on top of who knows what else...

[Gusington]

^Very good point.

[airboy]

The medical examiner confirmed that the death was a suicide.

I'm guessing there will be a wrongful death suit plus the Obama Justice Department will probably get involved.  So I'm thinking that the medical examiner attempted to be a thorough as possible knowing their judgment was going to be second guessed by experts.

[Bison]

This country is lost.

[Gusington]

^How could Capt. 'Murica really think that?

[Bison]

There is unfortunately very little to be positive about these days.

[Gusington]

I agree. But all cannot be lost. We can't accept that.