Windows 10

[Wes]

Yeah, I'm stacking up older machines that I need to run certain hardware/software but I'm going back to Linux for online stuff. I just have to finalize my intranet for the MS boxes/laptops and it's been a little hectic around the ranch.

[JasonPratt]

NECROTHREAD, ARISE!

(Seemed pertinent since the last post was Halloween.  >:D )

I thought I would add some notes from a Facebook friend, and a FB acquaintance.

'm having the damnedest time finding the right ethernet drivers for my computer. I think that I finally found the right one, but I'm waiting for it to restart. My Windows 10 experience is not off to a stellar start.. upset emoticon

Driver issues, unfortunately, have become part-and-parcel of free market in computer hardware. If you allow your OS to run on anyone's hardware, you take control of the drivers out of your hands and put it into the hands of manufacturers who know it is first and foremost your reputation on the line -- not theirs. In this case, Microsoft gave unprecedented additional time to manufacturers to update their drivers, as well as testing time ("Release Preview") out in the real world... and yet, a number of manufacturers did absolutely or nearly nothing to support users of their less-common or older devices.

It's frustrating.

I deal with it at work everyday. I've been in IT through upgrades from Windows 98/2000/ME to XP, to Vista, to 7, 8, 8.1, 8.1 Update (which should have been called 8.2), and now 10. Of all of those updates, _this_ one has been the easiest I've seen -- despite the usual groaning.

Do you know how to check the Hardware ID?

Also, I found an undocumented trick to *update* (not to find unknown) device drivers.

If you want to do that, go here: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930 -- then, click "Download the "Show or hide updates" troubleshooter package now." Then run it and click Next. Allow it to "Detect problems". Click "Hide updates". Now, it is important not to click "Next" -- ever. Just look at the updates available here. You won't see most of these driver updates in the normal Windows Update, for some reason. Open Device Manager (as an administrator) and match up the devices in that list with the updates in the troubleshooter (not always easy since updates will sometimes update the *name* of a device, too). When you find a device that occurs on both lists, right-click it in Device Manager, click "Update Driver Software...", and "Search automatically..." It will now go out and download the new update.

Also, be sure to open the Start Menu [aka Cortana] and type "Find and fix problems with devices" and run that troubleshooter because that one CAN identify unknown devices.

Everything is fine now, and I suspect that it is due to the firewall. I am will to bet that if I had just restarted a couple of times that everything would have worked fine. It's weird, but the first time I was logged in to Windows after all of the installing was done, it was all bare-bones, as though there were no device drivers installed. This is typical of a Windows instillation, but there were such grandiose promises about most software just seamlessly rolling over and not having to start from scratch. So I set about trying to find the drivers for my specific model, which was like pulling teeth-- almost everything that I found, even the drivers on Acer's own site were wrong. The biggest problem was that the folder that was labelled 64-bit was actually the 32-bit install, and I had to find the 64-bit version on a third-party site. I must have tried ten drivers before I got to the right one.

Oh, but wait-- there's more. So I finally have the right drivers, ok? And as I'm installing, it pops up that it is compatible with my hardware, so I'm about to do the happy dance all over the place. But then it tells me that the driver is already installed and that it needs to be uninstalled and the computer restarted before it can continue. squint emoticon

After a fantastic journey through system settings and the ethernet driver configuration, I came to the conclusion that God just hates me, pure and simple. This is not the worst thing that can happen.

After I found my Zen (smoked some pot and chugged some wine), I got back to it. It obviously wasn't working correctly, so fuck it, I might as well remove it and reinstall. Seemed like a good idea at the time...

The uninstall program never got past go. It's not like it was freezing, I could still do other things on my computer and it wasn't slowed down, and I could even move the uninstall program's window around, the window was just blank with no dialogs or status updates, the pointer was not busy, and the "close" button was greyed out. This was beginning to look like a bad episode of Anger Management.

After about twenty minutes of waiting, I ctrl+alt+deleted the bitch, just to see if I could wake her up. I clicked on "shut-down", and when it asked me if I was sure, I clicked "no'. It's a dirty old trick that my mom used to use on me when I was acting up-- grab me like she's gonna hit me and then growl in a low, "I'm done playing games" voice, "One last chance..."

Well, it worked-- the install program claimed to be done and that it needed to restart. So I restarted, and nothing was different. I don't even think that the program did a damn thing to my hard drive, because the driver was still installed and everything looked on the up and up, except for the fact that I couldn't connect to the internet through the ethernet. After trying the same thing like three times, I noticed that while I was waiting for the program to never be done, the firewall indicator was telling me that the firewall wasn't working properly. It wouldn't tell me anything about _how_ it wasn't working right, just that it wasn't working right and that I should click this button and let Commodo fix it.

Well, it's yet to let me down, so I trust Commodo.

And then my computer actually _did_ freeze. The pointer would move, but nothing would happen and the fan was working overtime for a good ten minutes before my give-a-fucker snapped and I hard rebooted. Yeah, I know, I got balls the size of something that would normally be seen chasing after Harrison Ford in some third-world lost temple. Hard rebooting while messing with drivers is one of the best ways to send your system FUBAR, and since I don't have the product key to this particular OEM (pre-installed factory BULLSHIT!!!), the idea of breaking my system would forever ensure that only pirated versions of Windows would ever again grace my HDD, which if you've ever tread that dark path, you know that one does not simply "pirate windows". unsure emoticon

But this time dumb luck won the day. It starts back up without a hitch and everything is just like it was before I upgraded, only you could tell that it was Windows 10 from the minimalist theme. I mean, the bitch was mint-- all my sound, video, and ETHERNET drivers were running right and better than before, almost like they were mocking me in my struggle. Computers are dicks.

So, what happened? It's just a guess, but I don't think that Windows was really done installing. I think that there was stuff going on under the hood, like writing to configuration files and updating the registry. But Microsoft is so eager to prove that they can be just as fast as Ubuntu (they have a long ways to go, like the kind of distance that requires faster than light travel), but still have that Windows edge, whatever that may be. In the rush to get the desktop up and running as fast as possible, I think that it loads the programs that are most necessary for the API and desktop environment first, and then everything else. This is what happens when a lazy little shit who's used to only working hard when the boss is watching creates an operating system-- it tries to trick you into thinking that it's done and ready to go when it hasn't even wiped, let alone pulled up it's pants. In other words, Windows has little-man's syndrome.

After all is said and done, I have to agree with David-- this was the easiest Windows install yet. That should tell you something about why so many people are interested in alternative operating systems like Lynux-- it may be weird and quirky at times, but anything is better than Windows. grin emoticon

[Martok]

Thanks for the update, Jason.  It confirms my decision to stick with Win7 indefinitely. 

[Huw the Poo]

That last story sure does make me appreciate Linux which has 99% of drivers anyone needs baked right into the kernel.  Just install the OS and you're done, 15 minutes maximum. ;)

[Nefaro]

Thanks for the update, Jason.  It confirms my decision to stick with Win7 indefinitely.

Yep.  Looks like we're gonna have to sort through every single update KB in Win7's future, though.

When I build the next PC, it may well be a dual-boot with Linux as the primary.  Like JD, I'll still be stuck using Windows to some extent, possibly quite a lot, because all the games are compatible with it.

This is pretty sad because I've never taken much issue with using a new Windows version, after the initial driver & compatibility issues had been mostly addressed.  Well.. except Windows 8 but that was pretty much a shitty tablet OS that came default on some poor sods' PCs; it wasn't pushed so heavily on everyone as Win10.

[mirth]

Yep.  Looks like we're gonna have to sort through every single update KB in Win7's future, though.

Bingo. I check every Win 7 update now before installing. MS is constantly trying to sneak in Win 10 related garbage.

[Martok]

Yep.  Looks like we're gonna have to sort through every single update KB in Win7's future, though.

Bingo. I check every Win 7 update now before installing. MS is constantly trying to sneak in Win 10 related garbage.

At the risk of exposing myself for the drooling idiot I am, how does one check a Windows update to see if it does, in fact, contain Win10-related crap?  And if so, how does one prevent that update from getting download/installed onto one's computer? 

[mirth]

Yep.  Looks like we're gonna have to sort through every single update KB in Win7's future, though.

Bingo. I check every Win 7 update now before installing. MS is constantly trying to sneak in Win 10 related garbage.

At the risk of exposing myself for the drooling idiot I am, how does one check a Windows update to see if it does, in fact, contain Win10-related crap?  And if so, how does one prevent that update from getting download/installed onto one's computer? 

I have my update settings set to notify when new updates are available, but to not download/install unless I select them.

You can review each update and MS usually gives you a "More Info" link. For anything I'm not sure about, I do some additional Googling for that KB item to figure out if it's okay to install.

At this point, I'm pretty much only installing security updates and Windows Defender definitions.

Win 7 update settings: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/change-windows-update-installation-notification#1TC=windows-7

Win 7 updates to avoid:

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/list-of-windows-7-telemetry-updates-to-avoid.379151/

http://www.majorgeeks.com/news/story/windows_updates_to_hide_to_avoid_telemetry_or_windows_10_upgrade.html


Removing an update: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/remove-update#1TC=windows-7

[bob48]

You will be assimilated; given time, Uncle Bill will get you.

[mirth]

I'm getting ready to join the Linux revolution.

[Martok]

Thanks mirth.  :) 

[Huw the Poo]

Windows.  The only OS whose users fight to not install the latest updates...

[Huw the Poo]

I'm getting ready to join the Linux revolution.

If you're deeply invested in wargaming you should probably keep a Windows partition exclusively for gaming.  But for me personally, there's a very small number of Windows games I really wish I could play, and certainly not enough for me to devote any hard drive space to that most loathsome of operating systems.  The Linux gaming market is already large enough that there are more games than I could possibly play.  Not to mention the Vulkan drivers which are just around the corner.  Now's a good time to jump in. :)

[mirth]

I'm getting ready to join the Linux revolution.

If you're deeply invested in wargaming you should probably keep a Windows partition exclusively for gaming.  But for me personally, there's a very small number of Windows games I really wish I could play, and certainly not enough for me to devote any hard drive space to that most loathsome of operating systems.  The Linux gaming market is already large enough that there are more games than I could possibly play.  Not to mention the Vulkan drivers which are just around the corner.  Now's a good time to jump in. :)

I have an old laptop I'm currently not using. If it has enough life left in it, I'm going to throw Mint on it. Otherwise I have an old desktop I can use.

[Huw the Poo]

A fine choice.  I've stuck with Mint for longer than any other distro now.  And the next update in May or June will have the Plasma 5 desktop!