Last Days of Old Earth [Early Access]

[spelk]

Really intrigued that this title is the spiritual successor to Vic Davis' Armageddon Empires!!!

http://www.slitherine.com/games/lastdays_of_oldearth_pc

Here's Das(24680)Tactic Twitch streaming it...

https://www.twitch.tv/dastactic/v/52113630

[tgb]

I was in the closed beta - here are my thoughts, cross posted from Quartertothree:

A quick disclaimer first: Beta testers were all given free keys yesterday for the final release, so I was quite surprised at the price - $24.99, which is a lot for an Early Access title, let alone one that's as feature-incomplete as this is.  I told the developers and TPTB at Slitherine that I thought there was a good chance the game would be savaged if it was released with so many missing features, even into Early Access.  At this price it's going to get creamed.

That's not to say there's not the kernel of a good game here, perhaps even a very good game, and it is playable and stable in it's current state, there just isn't a lot there.  But before dwelling on the negative, I'll get into what they did right.

In many ways, this is what they promised - a modern take on Armageddon Empires brought into the 21st century. The game has a lot of interface conventions that we take for granted that the original lacked - tool tips, zooming and panning, a rotatable 3-D map, and a tutorial.  The developers added a couple of new ideas that I really like. Unused action points now go into a hopper, and when the hopper is full (I think it holds 10) you can trade them in for one of any resource.  You no longer have to draw a card to place an outpost or collector - most heroes can build one directly on the map.  It takes one turn and the hero is vulnerable when doing it, but it removes the "luck of the draw" factor.  You can still purchase more initiative dice, but if you don't roll highest to go first, the resources you've spent are returned to you.  Terrain matters now, with mountains and forests conveying bonuses to the armies that occupy them.  Also there are random resource drops on the map, which also come with a little flavor text when you march over them, kind of like Goody Huts. Units have a wider range of special abilities.

Another addition that pretty much split the testers down the middle is the fact that skirmish games start you off with a number of resources already in place. I, along with a couple of other AE vets, hated that, while some felt it sped up the start of the game.  After some back and forth, the developers made it optional.

So much for the good.  Now for the not-so-good, with the understanding that with this being in EA the final product may be considerably different.

First of all, you'd think it would be tough to do a modern version that didn't look better than the original's beige hexes, but they managed.  It looks different, but just as bad in it's own way.  The setting is some sort of post-apocolypse winter, and the map is done in shades of blue and white.  Imagine Endless Legend's Winter turns, but with lower-res structures and lasting the entire game. The units look like rejects from Massive Chalice, and the artwork used for the cards don't look as good as Vic's originals.  All of the above is of course subjective, and YMMV, as the young people say today.

What's not subjective is that this appears as though it's going to be a very stripped-down version of AE, even when 1.0 hits.  I hate the phrase "dumbed down", because that's just gamer-code for "I'm so smart I play the original version".  So let's just call it streamlined.  The build available today comes with 2 factions (afaik, there will only be 2 in the final product as well - hello, DLC!), and pre-made decks consisting of heroes, infantry, and armor units. That means every opponent belonging to the same faction has the exact same deck of 40 cards.  Deck building is on the way, but 40 isn't nearly enough, especially when half of them are heroes. Every time I asked about features from AE that weren't implemented, I was directed to the developer's roadmap, which promised deck building, air and anti-air units, espionage, and a campaign.  That's all fine, but where's the research?  Where are the strategy cards that can turn a battle around with the right roll?  How about different kinds of rooms and leaders that can be attached to your HQ? NPC factions putting up resistance?  None of that is in the roadmap, which means either they aren't going to be included or are being saved for an expansion.

As I said, there's a germ of a good game here, but not at the $25 price point in my opinion.  If it had been $10 or $15, I'd say give it a shot if you've a mind to.  We have no idea what the final product will look like, so in the end it may very well be worth $25 or more.  But in the mean time, I did a little homework.

Cryptic Comet may be gone, but their website is still up and it appears you can still buy Armageddon Empires for $15 - a lot more game, and deeper, for $10 less.  I fired up my old copy the other day to see how it ran on a modern system and it ran just fine.

Unless you absolutely have to have tool tips and a 3-D map, I'd say wait to see what the final product is like.  Then wait for a sale.

[Tpek]

So very sad there won't be AE2  :'(

EDIT: Does it at least have local (hotseat) multiplayer? or only online one?

[tgb]

I don't play multiplayer so I never looked into it.

[CptHowdy]

 The developers added a couple of new ideas that I really like. Unused action points now go into a hopper, and when the hopper is full (I think it holds 10) you can trade them in for one of any resource.  You no longer have to draw a card to place an outpost or collector - most heroes can build one directly on the map.  It takes one turn and the hero is vulnerable when doing it, but it removes the "luck of the draw" factor.  You can still purchase more initiative dice, but if you don't roll highest to go first, the resources you've spent are returned to you.  Terrain matters now, with mountains and forests conveying bonuses to the armies that occupy them.  Also there are random resource drops on the map, which also come with a little flavor text when you march over them, kind of like Goody Huts. Units have a wider range of special abilities.

unused ap being saved is good
heroes could build collectors in AE no need to draw a card
getting back resources for initiative rolls=meh. risk/reward is removed. save those resources to deploy units or go for extra ap? no decision needed you can have both!!
terrain in AE only affected movement so having other bonuses will be nice
AE has random resource drops and other special tiles such as bases that the players can find. those bases usually have units or weapons you can claim. nothing new here.
units with more specials is good.
hopefully espionage is expanded upon because ive never used it while playing AE!
i run AE on my windows tablet so i concur with tgb that it is a better option if this sort of game is something you want to invest in.
the link posted is a youtuber that plays and mods AE. he has done videos on how to mod AE. very easy.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1NcwgdarA_4d5WlRsgGktA

[tgb]

I meant to comment on the risk/reward decision being removed from spending resources on dice.  Of course, you only get the resources back if you fail to come in first.

[TacticalWargames]

Seen a quick vid and it reminds me of Armageddon Empires.

[tgb]

Seen a quick vid and it reminds me of Armageddon Empires.

Ya think?

[bbmike]

So this one's a pass?

[GibbyG]

Its early access; of course things are missing.  If you want to be part of it and see it develop, go for it.  If not, wait for the final release and see what's changed

[tgb]

So this one's a pass?

The way things look, even if they live up to the road map and keep all of their promises, the game the developers are coming up with is still a simplified, stripped down version of the Cryptic Comet classic.  I hope I'm wrong, and things like HQ modules, weapons research, and tactics cards are still in the works, but that's not the impression I got during the closed beta.

If you don't mind a presentation and interface that's state of the art for 1995, the original is still the better game.  If you've never played it and don't know the difference, you might be happy with this.

[TacticalWargames]

Sorry jumped in before reading the previous posts.

Seen a quick vid and it reminds me of Armageddon Empires.

Ya think?

[tgb]

I was checking out Steam to see what updates dropped today, and, lo and behold, air power was added a couple of weeks ago and the campaign just now.  That makes LDoOE "feature complete", although still technically Early Access.

As far as I can tell there still any R&D or espionage (other than stealth units), but I'm going to take the campaign for a spin and see what this puppy can do, and if really is the second coming of Armageddon Empires.

[jomni]

Slitherine claims this is the last major update is near release.

[joram]

  I believe it's designed by Owen Faraday (from Pocket Tactics) no?  Was looking forward to seeing his vision succeed but it's not giving me the warm and fuzzies unfortunately.