Stellaris

[Jarhead0331]

...
The fact that I was able to play with all these features in under two hours and feel comfortable with how they function and come together is indicative of, primarily, a very well thought out UI, but also of perhaps a lack of deep complexity.
...

JH - do you think that might be in part to you having played MoO? I think they are incredibly similar - though I would say this is deeper.

Just one particular thing that stuck out to me was one of the things that pops up in the tutorial to help actually looks like one of the races in MoO.

But I found it (on the surface) extremely similar to MoO and therefore I was able to easily jump in. There's more depth there and I don't meant to take away from the design which is very good and definitely helps the ease of playing.

Interesting thoughts, JD. Nothing struck me as being overly similar to MOO, other than the overall similarities of being a space 4x game, that is pretty much shared by every game in the genre. When I play tonight, I'll try to take a deeper look into this to see if there are some obvious similarities I missed.

I do agree though that both games seem pretty simple on the surface, and that Stellaris has potential to be much more complex than MOO.

[Barthheart]

Interesting comments regarding the disappointment over lack of depth/complexity/etc. as compared with EU4 and CK2. Stellaris is a game I will be getting but don't yet have, but personally I'm glad it doesn't have those EU4 and CK2 qualities. They are games I was never able to get in to. I would complete the tutorials, start a game and then feel lost as to what I should be doing and when to do it. So I guess Paradox faces the old 'you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time' dilemma.

With CKII and EUIV you get dumped into the middle of an already existing country/empire and have to spend quite some time on figuring out what to do to keep yer stuff and keep yer people happy.
In Stellaris you start with 1 home world, 1 space yard, 1 science ship, 1 constructor ship and 3 military vessels. It's pretty easy to figure out what to do... explore and expand.... even without the tutorial.
This way you get to control how big and complex yer holdings are without being told to sink or swim.

I think most of the complexity that some of us want are deeper Leader stories/effects/families, deeper diplomacy (although I can't comment there as I haven't met any other major power), maybe some deeper combat mechanics.

[JudgeDredd]

...
The fact that I was able to play with all these features in under two hours and feel comfortable with how they function and come together is indicative of, primarily, a very well thought out UI, but also of perhaps a lack of deep complexity.
...

JH - do you think that might be in part to you having played MoO? I think they are incredibly similar - though I would say this is deeper.

Just one particular thing that stuck out to me was one of the things that pops up in the tutorial to help actually looks like one of the races in MoO.

But I found it (on the surface) extremely similar to MoO and therefore I was able to easily jump in. There's more depth there and I don't meant to take away from the design which is very good and definitely helps the ease of playing.

Interesting thoughts, JD. Nothing struck me as being overly similar to MOO, other than the overall similarities of being a space 4x game, that is pretty much shared by every game in the genre. When I play tonight, I'll try to take a deeper look into this to see if there are some obvious similarities I missed.

I do agree though that both games seem pretty simple on the surface, and that Stellaris has potential to be much more complex than MOO.

I don't play an awful lot of 4x - so maybe they are just mechanics that aren't just similar between these two, but the genre itself.

I literally played MOO a week or so ago again and there was a new race in it - and it does look like you're wee tutorial advisor in this game.

Star lanes (travel lanes?) were the obvious thing. Types of planet. Races.

Now that I'm sounding those off - I think they are probably more genre based similarities  :-[

[Jarhead0331]

Interesting comments regarding the disappointment over lack of depth/complexity/etc. as compared with EU4 and CK2. Stellaris is a game I will be getting but don't yet have, but personally I'm glad it doesn't have those EU4 and CK2 qualities. They are games I was never able to get in to. I would complete the tutorials, start a game and then feel lost as to what I should be doing and when to do it. So I guess Paradox faces the old 'you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time' dilemma.

With CKII and EUIV you get dumped into the middle of an already existing country/empire and have to spend quite some time on figuring out what to do to keep yer stuff and keep yer people happy.
In Stellaris you start with 1 home world, 1 space yard, 1 science ship, 1 constructor ship and 3 military vessels. It's pretty easy to figure out what to do... explore and expand.... even without the tutorial.
This way you get to control how big and complex yer holdings are without being told to sink or swim.

I think most of the complexity that some of us want are deeper Leader stories/effects/families, deeper diplomacy (although I can't comment there as I haven't met any other major power), maybe some deeper combat mechanics.

Great observation, Barth. That is undoubtedly a key factor in why Stellaris is much easier to get into initially.

[jomni]

Good analysis.

[Yskonyn]

Indeed it might very well be, barth.

I think I've started 4 games now and I've already seen 3 different types of travel; normal interstellar, star lanes and wormhole generators. :) Nice!

[sandman2575]

Agree with much of the assessment here -- presentation is very slick -- easily the best UI in a Pdox game-- with 'high production values' to be sure. Yet I have to admit to feeling a little underwhelmed in my (admittedly *very* brief) first session last night.

I guess I was expecting a little more out of the box. Everything feels very elegantly streamlined, but maybe a little too much so, at the cost of depth. As someone who completely loves Distant Worlds' 'commodities' and free market system, with seemingly 50 different resources you can collect for different needs, the break down of resources into a mere 3 (...something doesn't sit right about "Minerals" to me) is disappointing. In my home system, only two asteroids had any resources -- minerals -- the other 6-7 planets and moons had... nothing. I mean, really, nothing? There are *no* useful resources on any of those planets/moons? Again one of the great things about DW -- it was extremely rare to find a planet with no resources. Many had low-grade / common things like steel, which meant it might never be worth investing that planet with a mine or resource collector, but at least the game gave you an option to do *something* with it. A home system with 6-7 planets that I can do nothing with -- not too exciting.

The lack of anything like fuel restrictions / requirements for ships also seems disappointing.

Again, very early impressions, and I have no doubt that Stellaris will develop into something rivalling DW with expansions and DLC. But right now Stellaris feels unfortunately a lot closer to Gal Civ than to DW or Polaris Sector.

[Rayfer]

Interesting comments regarding the disappointment over lack of depth/complexity/etc. as compared with EU4 and CK2. Stellaris is a game I will be getting but don't yet have, but personally I'm glad it doesn't have those EU4 and CK2 qualities. They are games I was never able to get in to. I would complete the tutorials, start a game and then feel lost as to what I should be doing and when to do it. So I guess Paradox faces the old 'you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time' dilemma.

With CKII and EUIV you get dumped into the middle of an already existing country/empire and have to spend quite some time on figuring out what to do to keep yer stuff and keep yer people happy.
In Stellaris you start with 1 home world, 1 space yard, 1 science ship, 1 constructor ship and 3 military vessels. It's pretty easy to figure out what to do... explore and expand.... even without the tutorial.
This way you get to control how big and complex yer holdings are without being told to sink or swim.

I think most of the complexity that some of us want are deeper Leader stories/effects/families, deeper diplomacy (although I can't comment there as I haven't met any other major power), maybe some deeper combat mechanics.

Great observation, Barth. That is undoubtedly a key factor in why Stellaris is much easier to get into initially.

Agree, and I appreciate BH's comments. Motivated me to not want to wait much longer.

[Nefaro]

It seems like a lighter mix of Distant Worlds and Victoria 2 (Innn Spaaaace!!), with other 4X and grand strategy influences mixed in.  Some bits reminded me of Endless Space & Endless Legend, to name a couple examples.

The Vic 2 thing may sound weird, but the "Pops" and War Goals facet of diplomacy were some parts that really reminded me most of the same setup in Vic 2. 

It's a good base to start with.  I'm sure DLC will turn it into a giant.

[jamus34]

I can definitely see politics being the first DLC. In all honesty I think I would like to see that. Maybe if you have a junta it costs you 3 leader slots but you gain more bonuses. Also the "ruler having a kid" thing doesn't quite work on an intergalactic basis but how about an intern or a leader will have a support staff that one member can be chosen to succeed him or her or it.
Dunno, but I think there's quite a few directions they can go in. I am disappointed in the combat but it does follow paradoxes style of being relatively hands off.

[Huw the Poo]

Re: useless planets etc.  There are plenty of resources besides the basic ones that you don't see until you've researched the tech.  They probably aren't as useless as you think.

[Barthheart]

... In my home system, only two asteroids had any resources -- minerals -- the other 6-7 planets and moons had... nothing. I mean, really, nothing? There are *no* useful resources on any of those planets/moons? ...

Just a quick note here is that you can develop different techs that will expose new resources. These are called rare or strategic resources. So previously useless world might become important.


Dammit, ninja'd again.

[Tuna]

Again, very early impressions, and I have no doubt that Stellaris will develop into something rivalling DW with expansions and DLC. But right now Stellaris feels unfortunately a lot closer to Gal Civ than to DW or Polaris Sector.

Big difference is the DLC's won't cost an arm and a leg like DW. Also someone who wants to get into the game at a later state, waiting for the completion of future DLCs and such. They will be able to get in at a reasonable price point, maybe a very good price point with the sales that Paradox constantly has.

[Pete Dero]

Paradox press release :

Paradox Interactive and Paradox Development Studio launched into space last night with the release of sci-fi grand strategy Stellaris. The launch was received to almost universal acclaim by the community, with an impressive 95% positive user reviews on Steam. With 68,000 simultaneous players on the day of release, Stellaris also managed to de-throne the publisher's other recent success Cities: Skylines, which previously held their record for highest amount of concurrent players at launch. Less than 24 hours after release, Stellaris has sold over 200,000 units, breaking the revenue record for any of Paradox Interactive's previous titles during the same time period. For the internal development studio, the game has broken every record available and is the studio's fastest selling game ever.

[sandman2575]

Re: useless planets etc.  There are plenty of resources besides the basic ones that you don't see until you've researched the tech.  They probably aren't as useless as you think.

That's great to know.

Part of me hoped that with Stellaris partially adopting Victoria's "POP" system, it might also incorporate some of Victoria's excellent (though flawed) market and commodities mechanics. But in any case, I'm glad to hear there are more than 3 resources and that my home system may not be the barren wasteland it appears to be.   :)

Also -- please God let Victoria 3 be Pdox's next big project.