Gun Control Question (US)

[JudgeDredd]

So a bill to prevent people on the terrorist watch list from being able to get or hold guns was defeated.

Simple question - why was, what appeared to be on the surface a sensible suggestion, rejected?

Is it to do with Federal Government sticking their oar in to peoples lives? Is it because you see it as opening a crack in a door that could potentially be booted open in years to come?


I've fired the question of getting rid of guns many, many times over the years to my American pals and I have to say that over the years I've had great feedback on why people want to keep their guns. I used to think it was just about the 2nd Amendment - "your right to bear arms". But as seen in the UK very recently, gun control really just means law abiding people can't have guns...people unconcerned with the law will always be able to get a hold of them.

I think it would be a regressive step if the UK ever lifted it's ban on guns or relaxed gun control laws because I see people regularly on a daily basis and whilst I it's not their political views or their state of mind that would give me concern about them holding a gun...I would most definitely be against them having a gun because they're just plain, old fashioned idiots and I wouldn't trust them with a spoon.

But I can see why tampering with gun control laws in the US is so fervently fought against.

So - I just thought I'd ask your views on why you think it was blocked and whether you personally thought the idea was a sensible one or whether it was right to be blocked, and why?

[JudgeDredd]

I should add I am using the "headline" story as reported here today in the UK. I don't know the specifics of the law and I haven't heard any arguments as to why.

I imagine some people may have thought it was a rush job for Obama to be able to say "I got some control over guns"...but I genuinely have no other depth of knowledge than what I put in the headline post above - it was a question designed to find out what people thought of the bill and the rejection.

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

Not an American but my take on it is that there is no due process involved with the terror watchlist.  In most cases, one does not know that they've been placed on it until they do something such as try to fly.  There's no chance to defend oneself against being placed on the list, there's little chance of finding out why one has been placed on the list, and unless one has connections or the savvy to be able to raise enough public awareness to create a stink, no real method of getting oneself removed from the list.

The way the watchlist is being used represents a complete lack of oversight and a serious case of government overreach.  Janet Napolitano, former head of Homeland Security, pushed to have people such as returning veterans and those with "extremist" bumper stickers such as "don't tread on me" or the Gadsden flag placed on the list. 

[Boggit]

So a bill to prevent people on the terrorist watch list from being able to get or hold guns was defeated.

Simple question - why was, what appeared to be on the surface a sensible suggestion, rejected?

+1 O0
I was just thinking the exactly the same thing.

I think it would be a regressive step if the UK ever lifted it's ban on guns or relaxed gun control laws because I see people regularly on a daily basis and whilst I it's not their political views or their state of mind that would give me concern about them holding a gun...I would most definitely be against them having a gun because they're just plain, old fashioned idiots and I wouldn't trust them with a spoon.

That's the truth! O0

[Boggit]

Not an American but my take on it is that there is no due process involved with the terror watchlist.  In most cases, one does not know that they've been placed on it until they do something such as try to fly.  There's no chance to defend oneself against being placed on the list, there's little chance of finding out why one has been placed on the list, and unless one has connections or the savvy to be able to raise enough public awareness to create a stink, no real method of getting oneself removed from the list.

The way the watchlist is being used represents a complete lack of oversight and a serious case of government overreach.  Janet Napolitano, former head of Homeland Security, pushed to have people such as returning veterans and those with "extremist" bumper stickers such as "don't tread on me" or the Gadsden flag placed on the list.

That is actually a very good argument for rejection. It says little of the effectiveness of government on an important issue though, which is scary.

[JudgeDredd]

...Janet Napolitano, former head of Homeland Security, pushed to have people such as returning veterans and those with "extremist" bumper stickers such as "don't tread on me" or the Gadsden flag placed on the list.

wow - and that has answered my question

[bayonetbrant]

The way the watch lists are managed are a completely embarrassing farce.  As noted above, there's virtually no due process to get on them, it's almost impossible to get off of them, and while DHS is supposed to have oversight of them, there's a lot of folks that aren't convinced that DHS is doing anything remotely useful.

[JasonPratt]

Heck, for all I know I'm on the terrorist watchlist!

No kidding: I was nearly detained as a suspected Iranian terrorist for having diarrhea and trying to enter the US with various papers other than a passport. It just occurred to me this might have put me on the watchlist by some kind of clerical association. (Um, paperwork clerical, not religious clerical.)

To be fair, an alert had been issued that 4 known Iranian terrorists would be trying to enter the US that weekend, three of whom looked enough like me to nevermind, and (thanks to the upset stomach) I had been acting weirdly in line while trying not to be late to catch my plane out of Montreal. Also, having made a flash trip to Montreal, I had been told I wouldn't need a passport (which had long expired) so long as I had various other identifications (which I did). Worked fine going into Canada, not so much coming back!

Fortunately, I think the custom's guy decided I was too stupid to be a terrorist.  >:D "You know who coaches the UT Knoxville women's  basketball team, but not who your governor is?!" "Pat Summit is a lot more important in Tennessee than our governor."

[Sir Slash]

Agree totally with SDR's statement and reasoning. A longer 'Hold' on buying guns if you're on the Watch List would've made more sense but until the Watch List is replaced by something more accurate, it's open to massive abuse-- which is probably what they're shooting for. Punned you! 

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

Agree totally with SDR's statement and reasoning. A longer 'Hold' on buying guns if you're on the Watch List would've made more sense but until the Watch List is replaced by something more accurate, it's open to massive abuse-- which is probably what they're shooting for. Punned you! 

That's it, you're on the list...

[Sir Slash]

Don't shoot the messenger! Just had to pop-off about it.

[Boggit]

Don't shoot the messenger! Just had to pop-off about it.

SDR has you "bang" to rights! ;)

[JudgeDredd]

Surely it was just a shot in the dark at someone here - with both barrels? 

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

[JudgeDredd]

Do you though? Or is that just a warning shot?