Post Brexit political issues within the UK

[Boggit]

The danger of being too close to the Brexit issue is that you might risk a too narrow perspective. :-[ A good friend of mine sent me this US perspective, which sheds some light on opinions without having a dog in the race. (Well maybe no dog so far, but with a 'new world order; there are opportunities to be had). Time to share: :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LuRwo3GnuU

Actually some of their views are quite accurate, but some are a little more interpretative, IMO. Anyway an interesting set of comments by Americans looking in.

[Boggit]

It's not like the BBC to say anything negative about the EU, so I was surprised to see that they reported that corruption within the EU was staggering. I note that the chapter in the report that related to corruption within the EU institutions was dropped. Now that is a puzzle. Why would they do that? >:D ::)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26014387

[Gusington]

Getting with the the British program.

[ComradeP]

As I had feared, it's turning into another classic example of politicians not taking responsibility after moving their country towards a dramatic change. Johnson and Farage are gone from the scene, with only Gove left and it being unlikely he'll be the man the Conservatives want as the next leader.

This is what I simply hate about these events: a big mess is created, and then the politicians responsible for it just throw the towel into the ring and make it somebody else's problem. They rage against "unelected" politicians in the EU and claim they'll do things differently, but they act in the same or worse way than the politicians they blame for the problems of their country. The other politicians are not much better, but they don't tend to campaign from a moral highground of being right or having a right to do certain things their way.

It's also why I find it so difficult to believe that many people continue to believe them. Yes, there were a variety of non-political reasons for the Brexit, but based on the interviews with voters and the commentary in the news that I've read, there were certainly people who believed that the politicians who have left the political stage a short while after the Brexit referendum were different and would change things. I feel sorry for those people.

[undercovergeek]

I can only admit to disappointment so far, there's nothing farage can do but be a voice for leaving, Boris going is a big blow and the current front runner for leadership is a remain campaigner - here's what I think will happen - in the light of total inactivity and not waking up to a country with unicorns and rainbows the day after the vote I think if may wins she will just wait and wait until apathy sinks any Brexit enthusiasm and then go back to a referendum where by the decision will be reversed on the basis it made not a jot of difference before

There is a legal battle starting today by a group of remain business leaders and scientists saying that it doesn't matter what the public said the decision and actual program of leaving the Eu should be a parliamentary decision and process thereby needing a vote in the commons to proceed - this will also be a remain victory if it's true

In short the result I wanted has been given, the people I expected to steer us through that have walked away and the likely new leadership will force a remain decision on us somehow - I personally think a remain campaigner should not be allowed to stand - Cameron had the good grace to admit defeat and recognise his leadership wasn't right for 52% of the country that should hold true for all the remain contenders

[Boggit]

As I had feared, it's turning into another classic example of politicians not taking responsibility after moving their country towards a dramatic change. Johnson and Farage are gone from the scene, with only Gove left and it being unlikely he'll be the man the Conservatives want as the next leader.

... It's also why I find it so difficult to believe that many people continue to believe them. Yes, there were a variety of non-political reasons for the Brexit, but based on the interviews with voters and the commentary in the news that I've read, there were certainly people who believed that the politicians who have left the political stage a short while after the Brexit referendum were different and would change things. I feel sorry for those people.

It's very annoying having seen democracy in action achieve the Brexit vote, then the political leaders driving the campaign disappear from the scene. If anything they have a duty to provide post Brexit Britain with the leadership needed to push forward with the EUSSR negotiations and beyond. It's very frustrating having such weak politicians. This can be a very workable separation, but the politicians are the only people in the frame to move it forward.

[Boggit]

I can only admit to disappointment so far, there's nothing farage can do but be a voice for leaving, Boris going is a big blow and the current front runner for leadership is a remain campaigner - here's what I think will happen - in the light of total inactivity and not waking up to a country with unicorns and rainbows the day after the vote I think if may wins she will just wait and wait until apathy sinks any Brexit enthusiasm and then go back to a referendum where by the decision will be reversed on the basis it made not a jot of difference before

There is a legal battle starting today by a group of remain business leaders and scientists saying that it doesn't matter what the public said the decision and actual program of leaving the Eu should be a parliamentary decision and process thereby needing a vote in the commons to proceed - this will also be a remain victory if it's true

In short the result I wanted has been given, the people I expected to steer us through that have walked away and the likely new leadership will force a remain decision on us somehow - I personally think a remain campaigner should not be allowed to stand - Cameron had the good grace to admit defeat and recognise his leadership wasn't right for 52% of the country that should hold true for all the remain contenders

+10000000000

Why is May the favourite? Because she is part of the Tory élite, and part of their majority cabal for Remain. I think you are right that she will wait and ignore the democratic decision made by the country. This will be the French and Dutch 2005 referendums, the Irish 2008 all over again where the EU has got the wrong result so the politicians ignore the will of the people. This will be like the Irish 2009 referendum if we're not careful, where the Irish were thrown a few political scraps for a second referendum. If a second referendum happens, we will all know why, and it is the proof that democracy is dead in the UK.

The trouble is that few of the political class thought the referendum would pass in favour of Brexit, and being the out of touch, self interested bastar*s they are may try to overturn it. Like you I am disappointed with the turn of events, which is also turning to anger and frustration that the will of the people may be circumvented. I hate to say it, but I predicted this sell out before the referendum had even taken place.

Sir Slash (IIRC) before the referendum likened the EU to the Hotel California? It's no joke. I don't want to be part of the EUSSR. >:(

I may be panicking a bit prematurely. Andrea Leadsom seems a good Leave PM candidate, having a strong background in financial services, she seems a credible alternative. Anyway, we should know the outcome very soon of that leadership race, and can watch from there.

It seems that Farage has resigned perhaps more to do with his health, after 2 serious accidents (one car, one plane), it turns out that he had testicular cancer too. I'm not surprised he is standing down from the leadership of UKIP due to health reasons as much as any. He will remain an MEP though.

[undercovergeek]

I think farage is leaving on a high - the best it's going to get for him, I'm a bit puzzled as to the point of ukip now - their reason for being was to get us out of the eu, now we are I'm not sure what their appeal is - I think he goes out on a mission accomplished vibe and fair play, he wanted it, worked for it and even had his day in parliament sticking it to his opponents

Common sense tells me one simply can't pretend we voted out but I think that's what's going to happen - hunker down, wait til it's blown over, paint us all as racist thugs (are you really telling me no one yelled ***** go home before the referendum?) and then call it again

[bob48]

I shall remain in my customary state of total confusion.

[MetalDog]

For you, bob:

[Con]

I think this was always part of the issue the leave camp had.  They wanted a binary decision Stay or Leave but never presented a plan and strategy of what would happen if they won the leave vote.  Now you are seeing that with no one being held responsible they are all leaving.  Maybe its a MPExit.  One of the issues a US candidate for presidency is asked is what their plan for the first 100 days in office are.  (I dont know if this is a requirement or just hot air as in how much they can actually achieve).  It does however ensure that they have at least got something of a plan in place that has been communicated to the voters prior to the election; whether they follow it or not is the variable.

Con

[bob48]

[Boggit]

I think farage is leaving on a high - the best it's going to get for him, I'm a bit puzzled as to the point of ukip now - their reason for being was to get us out of the eu, now we are I'm not sure what their appeal is - I think he goes out on a mission accomplished vibe and fair play, he wanted it, worked for it and even had his day in parliament sticking it to his opponents

I think so too. I mentioned in an earlier reply to ComradeP that to survive long term, UKIP will now have to widen it's appeal post Brexit. Of course if the Conservatives betray the will of the people post Brexit, then they still have a purpose. Although, I still think they should think about what other things they stand for their long term survival. I'm not keen to see a return to 2 party politics, along with the anti democratic Lib Dems in tow. A multiparty state tends to represent a wider spectrum of views.

Common sense tells me one simply can't pretend we voted out but I think that's what's going to happen - hunker down, wait til it's blown over, paint us all as racist thugs (are you really telling me no one yelled ***** go home before the referendum?) and then call it again

Maybe. I'm hoping Andrea Leadsom will gain traction in the Conservative leadership race. She seems a pretty intelligent individual and was a Leave supporter. Interestingly, she is in favour of leaving EU nationals already in the UK as they are re: rights and residency, which is in line with a recent poll of Leave voters (77% wanting the Brexit not to harm the interest of EU nationals) http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/andrea-leadsom-eu-nationals-in-uk-wont-be-brexit-bargaining-chips  whereas Remain campaigner Theresa May is vague as to their future.

[Boggit]

I think this was always part of the issue the leave camp had.  They wanted a binary decision Stay or Leave but never presented a plan and strategy of what would happen if they won the leave vote.  Now you are seeing that with no one being held responsible they are all leaving.  Maybe its a MPExit.  One of the issues a US candidate for presidency is asked is what their plan for the first 100 days in office are.  (I dont know if this is a requirement or just hot air as in how much they can actually achieve).  It does however ensure that they have at least got something of a plan in place that has been communicated to the voters prior to the election; whether they follow it or not is the variable.

Con

A good point. Andrea Leadsom, one of the Leave campaigners, and in the conservative leadership race is a bit more advanced in her planning, but it's still a very good point you make. It speaks volumes about how out of touch the politicians are. Few of them thought Brexit would happen, so didn't have a plan B. An insane place to be, but that's the politicians in power for you.

[Boggit]

More tribute to be wasted by the EU. http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/686048/EU-referendum-Brussels-Britain-pay-12billion-budget-Brexit-vote

Does the EUSSR really need it's own army? NATO has kept the peace for decades. The EU as such has only been in existence since 1992, and can only show failure in its dealings with the Balkans, and Ukraine. It scares me to think of why they think they need an army for the EUSSR.

The sooner Art 50 is triggered the better. I won't be surprised if we are the last to want an exit referendum.