HoI4 vs Stellaris vs Polaris Sector

[FarAway Sooner]

OK, my birthday's coming up in a little while, and after reviewing lots of Wikis, online manuals, and Let's Play videos, I've narrowed it down to a choice between these 3 titles.  Due to budget limitations in the FarAway family, I'm limited to 1 title at this point in time, else my wife would be .

I'm looking for that title which seems the most polished at this stage:  accessible game-play (depth is desired, but I want to ease myself into the pool slowly), decent AI, and a lack of obvious exploits are my top priorities.  Given the presence of Paradox titles here, not having to purchase $200 of DLC to eventually get a complete game is a plus!

For those of you who have played more, any recommendations?  Are my impressions below correct?

• HoI 4 looks really intriguing, as I love the mechanics I've seen and it offers that "big front door AND big house" vibe that I'm interested in.  I worry mostly about having a credible AI opponent or facing balance issues.
• Stellaris also looks really good.  I'm not sure it offers the complexity of HoI 4, but the volume of free content still being pushed out makes it really appealing.  Is the AI good, and/or is the game feature-complete at this stage?
• Polaris Sector got rave reviews here a while back, and I like the emphasis on combat that seems lacking from the other titles.  Steam reviewers are much harsher on it than the other 2 titles, but I'm not sure why.  At this point, I'm leaning towards one of the first 2 titles, but I could be persuaded if this is an overlooked gem.

Any recommendations?

[Barthheart]

Bit hard to compare a WWII game with two space 4X games....

Don't have HoI VI... Gave up on the series ever having a credible AI with III.

Stellaris is a good game... But not great yet. Next patch should fix some stuff... but I can easily see this needing DLC to become a complete package.

Polaris Sector is also a good game that's not great... yet. I haven't played in a while but the last patch was supposed to nerf the AI's infinite range exploit, which make the game better. There still is not another space game that gives the proper feeling of how big space is, how long it takes to travel, and how long massive space ship should take to build. Really get the epic space feeling with PS.

[acctingman]

HoI4 AI is garbage, imo 

[Jarhead0331]

HoI4 AI is garbage, imo 

How many hours do you have with the game? Just curious.

[acctingman]

55 hours

[mikeck]

I own all three but have never played HOI IV.  What I will do is compare Polaris sector to stellaris and advocate for the former. If your looking for complexity and depth, I find Polaris to be superior to stellaris.  Some people claim that Polaris is too combat oriented and the rest of the game is not deep but I cannot disagree more.

Ship design:  Polaris  uses a system where by each component takes up a certain amount of space. Components must be placed on a grid representing the ship in order to operate. There are different levels to the ship with weapons on the top deck having 360° ability. Weapons on the lower decks fire from the sides. All engines shields and otherwise must fit inside the ship. You must ensure that you have enough power and fuel tanks as well as engine power. Nothing worse than having a slow ship or one with no range. In this game range is extremely important. 

Because of this, ships have to be specialized. You might have point  defence frigates, missile cruisers, carriers etc. You cannot have a jack of all trades ship; there simply isn't enough room. I also really like the fact that you can specialize ships for whatever you want.  For example espionage: ( not present in stellaris)  is performed using "spy ships". You take a cargo ship and put components on it that increase its sensors, it's low observability and also enable it to pick up communications. Also,equipment specialized for spying. Send it to an enemy planet and you start picking up information. If the enemy finds you though, they don't have to shoot you down...they can start feeding you false information! So your ship might be telling you something about the enemy fleet but that information might be planted by the enemy! You can also da sabotage things and steal tech.

Planet development: this is an area where people hammer Polaris sector but I think they're  misunderstanding the mechanics.   First, you don't just magically colonize. You have to construct a colonization ship with enough capacity and fuel, build it, load up the passengers and fly to the planet There are several types of planets; Some that can be colonized immediately, some that require technology and some that can never be colonized.  Planets have a limited amount of buildings that can be placed on them. In essence, you have agricultural buildings, research buildings, industrial buildings and various mines (as well as defense structures.) Because of the building limit you really need to specialize planets; some are agricultural planets others are industrial power houses.

Now here is the Rub:there are approximately 6-7 different types of minerals that you need in order to run your empire. In Stellaris there are just 2:  minerals and energy.  In order to get these 7, you have to establish a colony and mind them when I planet that has them. This forces you to not only build mines on planets you already have (which take space from other buildings) but to colonize planets you would not normally want but they possess some of the more rare minerals.  This can also cause conflicts with other races if there is a planet particularly rich in minerals.  Minerals are stockpiled and if you run low, construction stops. Each component requires a certain type of minerals in a certain amount. If you want to continue you either need to design a ship that does not use that mineral or wait for more to come in.  Specifically requiring certain types of minerals and the mining involved makes it much more complex than stellars which just requires you have a certain amount of "minerals" and "energy " that can be obtained by just dropping mining satellites wherever.

Because of the effort involved in colonizing a planet and building minds you really have to make sure it's properly defended so your supply will continue. In stellaris you just build another mine.

Fleets and combat:  combat in Polaris sector is far better than stole ours. The graphics on is good but in terms of the tactics it is. You detect the enemy based on how good your sensors are. If your sensors aren't very good the enemy can sneak up on you. You have to position your ships in such a way that your pic it ships can detect the enemy and your defense ships are capable of defending the fleet.  You also have aircraft that can be launched to attack the enemy with torpedoes. They are very effective unless countered by fighters for air defense. It is not a "rock paper scissors "system...it is more of a combined arms requirement.

Because of ship specialization, you really need to watch your fleet composition. You need some picket ships with sensors, you need some defensibe ships and you need your heavy hitters.  Because troops need equipment for them and their supplies you need to build trip transports as well. Lots of them. You need to make sure those transports are defended. This makes fleet composition very important. I have "combat fleets" and "amphibious fleets". The latter are capable of defending themselves but always travel with a combat fleet. Once landed, the combat fleet can travel to nearby stars in order to attack incoming reinforcements.

Moving around:  Time flies by and Polaris. It takes months to move between the stars and can take years to build spacecraft. For this reason each ship feels important and you want to save them...not because of the pixel-crew on board but because it takes so many minerals and time to build new ones. Just like real life.   Positioning your fleets around your empire is extremely important. It takes so long to get around that if you wait for an attack to happen you won't have time to get a fleet over there. You really need picket ships and sensors with regional fleets.

Population:  you need people for everything. If you want to produce troops then you need people 1000 Marines takes 1000 population. Want to build a factory? You need to thousand population. For this reason the amount of people on the planet and help grow is very important. I build passenger ships that allow me to ferry 5000 people from one place to another to balance things out. in stellaris,  population only exists to provide food minerals and tech from the planet. You don't "need them" to build ships, troops or anything

Technology:  I love the technology system in Polaris. It is not a linear system where you research "A" which leads to "B".  In Polaris you divide up your research between four fields of biology, physics, math and  chemistry. There's an additional slider to divide between fundamental science and applied science. First you discover fundamental technologies and then later on learn how to apply those to build specific systems. This way you wind up with a number of different technologies discovered along the way instead of one at a time. And much more realistic system.   There are hundreds and hundreds of techs...both fundamental and applied.

Ground combat:  another area where Polaris is more complex than stellaris. In stellaris, you just build an infantry Regiment and then click on the planet you want them to attack. They magically fly off and attack. In Polaris you have to build Marines as well as boats, tanks, ground attack aircraft and fighters. You then have to build transports with enough lift capability to take enough of that stuff with you.   When you land , troops will take a lot of casualties on the way down. They will begin fighting which can last several years. It's important that you have an open supply lines so you can go back-and-forth to replenish your troops and equipment. It is not enough to simply drop a bunch of men and wait for victory. It is truly an ongoing operation where if you are able to cut the enemy supply line he cannot reinforce.

diplomacy and AI:  The diplomacy in both is about the same. Nothing fantastic one way or the other. I believe the AI is much better and polaris sector. It does get a cheat in the form of fuel restrictions but if you don't degend your empire with good ships and good sensors during a war, the enemy will mess you up . Ai  in Polaris also makes good use of espionage. They will build a lot of spy ships and park them everywhere.

I have enjoyed both games and I hope this doesn't sound like I don't like stellaris because I do. I think Stellaris has much better graphics and I like the interface. But if you were looking for complexity, I don't see any area we're stellaris is more complex than polaris sector.  I believe that combat, both space and ground, planet development and technology are better and more in depth and Palora sector. Still are us has no espionage Palora sectors is excellent because it is different and effective. Palora sector also has much better ship construction  and fleet development is better in Polaris... Just don't expect great graphics

People will disagree..but I just think Polaris is the more in depth and better game

[mikeck]

55 hours

Pretty sure you stated that you weren't really experienced with grand strategy games. You aren't a fan but decided to try. Ultimately, you just couldn't wrap your head around it and didn't enjoy it.  That's from memory so if I'm wrong, I apologize; But the game is not "garbage" simply because you don't like it. I've said before that I HATE panzer corp games and John Tiller games...can't understand why anyone does. That said, they aren't bad games or garbage, I just don't like them.

HOI IV overall has received a lot of favorable reviews. aI needs work but that's the case with almost all huge ambitious games

[W8taminute]

My take on all three games.  [I have all three in my Steam library]

HOI IV - definitely the easiest of the series to get into in terms of intuitive interface and micro management.  Over 100 hrs played.

Polaris Sector - Love the ship designer, the atmosphere, and the game play mechanics.  Over 100 hrs played.

Stellaris - Surprisingly easy real time space strategy game to play.  Never felt overwhelmed with too much to do simultaneously yet the game is richly rewarding as far as game play is concerned.  Under 100 hrs played due to the above two titles stealing all my time.

[sandman2575]

As someone with 197 hrs. logged in HOI4 (making it already the 2nd most-played game in my Steam library  :o), I've formed some opinions on the subject...

;)

I agree that the AI is HOI4's weakest point right now, although I agree with mikeck that calling it 'garbage' is a bit harsh. There's no question that the devs need to keep putting work into this -- and I'm confident they will, they're Paradox. Hell, they're about to release yet another expansion for CKII, a game that came out 4 1/2 years ago now. In other words -- they're committed to improving their games. (Whether every expansion represents a true 'improvement' is a debate for another time but they're committed, you've got to give them that!)

Yeah, so I have 197 hrs. in Hoi4... 5 hrs. in Polaris, and 3 hrs. in Stellaris.   I guess my bias is showing   :)

[mikeck]

Hmmm...sorry for the book I wrote above. Didn't realize how long I was going on for

[jomni]

Hmmm...sorry for the book I wrote above. Didn't realize how long I was going on for

You make it sound like WITP in Space.  ;D

[FarAway Sooner]

Dang, Mikeck, I loved all the detailed info.  You aren't making this decision any easier for me, you know?!?

Now I'm going to have to check out a Let's Play of Polaris Sector as well... 

Reading the Steam reviews, lots of folks complain about the UI.  Is this because folks didn't put in the work to master it, or because it's really that poorly designed?

[mikeck]

Hmmm...sorry for the book I wrote above. Didn't realize how long I was going on for

You make it sound like WITP in Space.  ;D

I hope not! I don't want to mislead anyone. I like the game a lot but it's nowhere near as complex as WiTP, WItE, Decisive campaigns or even Eu 4/ HOI 4. It's just one of the deeper space 4xs I feel. I think Master of Orion3 is still the king in that department. It may not look like it is complex on the surface but that is misleading. For example, MOO4 has a ton more building types than Polaris. But really, most are just smal variations of the same. They either produce food, research, ships or minerals/money OR, they multiply the amounts. Polaris cuts a lot of that out

[JudgeDredd]

Jesus mickek.  O0

I haven't played HoI IV yet but I have played Polaris Sector and Stellaris and what I can say that mickek's write-up didn't (though it's certainly implied) is the Polaris Sector is fun

I haven't played Polaris Sector for ages, but I can say it's the only 4x game I've ever played to completion

[OJsDad]

From the developer of Polaris Sector

http://steamcommunity.com/app/418250/discussions/0/358415103478273538/

A list of features for the next patch or DLC

Hi!

I am starting a new big patch (or even a DLC), need your help with defining the most important things to do.

Currently in my list (only the big ones):
1. Automation of building/replenishment of small ships.
2. Rally-points for fleets.
3. More FTL types
4. Battle arena
5. New race (with completely different properties, type of planets required, etc)
6. Tactical combat-related features (more weapon types, capital ships formations, more commands, etc)
7. Bigger diversity of planets and their characteristics
8. More technologies, especially "civil" ones