Epipen price jump

[airboy]

I wouldn't be surprised to find that some of those onerous FDA regulations were actually created at the behest of big Pharma itself to keep competitors (especially smaller ones) from getting in on the fun.

It would not surprise me.

Alternative explanation - power mad bureaucrats.  That also happens.

[DoctorQuest]

The Epipen problem is what you get in a horrible regulatory state.  It is very time consuming (think many, many years) to get anything approved by the FDA and the process is amazingly expensive.  This is true even if the drug has been around forever and the technology is well known.

When you raise the entry cost barriers due to excessive regulation, you get de-facto monopolies set up by the government.  Monopoly pricing is easy to determine what the profit maximizing price is.  For Epipen's, nobody who does not have to have one will get one.  For those who need them, it can potentially save their life.  Thus highly inelastic demand and the need for multiple producers to keep prices low.  But the cost of entry for a new producer is so high due to the government, you get horrible pricing situations in the market.

And I'm saying this as a guy who has to have Epipens with them whenever they hunt.  If I step on a yellow jacket nest or get bitten by a rattlesnake or copperhead, I'm likely to die before I can get to the emergency room.

In sum, the problem is the US Government preventing competition due to a hyper-regulatory State.

What regulations would you remove to solve the problem?

The FDA should have a hyper-streamlined approval process for competitive entry after a patent has expired.  It would be simple enough to have a company post a $5 million bond to pay off manufacturing defects for the first 3 years.  The actual cost of such a bond would be very low.  Or, they could have approved drug manufacturers all of which can manufacture generics of any type by posting said bond.

Patents are PUBLIC DOCUMENTS!!  You can download and read them.  That is why we have patents!!  But the FDA puts a hyper expensive and onerous process to produce competitive products.

This is not complicated to solve - except by the idiot US government.

Good idea. I wish any hearings on the subject would address these sorts of issues. I can wish, can't I?

I still feel it is a fascinating question around how much is too much profit, especially at the expense of folks with a medical problem. I don't have a good answer. I have never held a monopoly on anything so I can't really relate to those who do and can exploit it. After reading OJD's article I stumbled upon this one. Among other things it does talk about Mylan's lobbying of legislation that works in it's favor.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/293388-pricing-of-epipens-merits-scrutiny-committee-hearings

And this is completely unrelated. I just like the A-10.  O0

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/293379-mccain-and-allies-cheer-report-criticizing-plans-to-retire-the-a-10

[Sir Slash]

It's really a new program by the Government to get our DNA samples to test our compatibility with Alien DNA for the Hybrid Creation Program. Am I the only one here that watched, 'X-Files'?

[jomni]

Saw this in Facebook
"YOU DON'T NEED EPIPEN! Ask your doctor to prescribe an amp of epinephrine and a tuberculin syringe and teach you to use it.  Cost: $10."

[Pinetree]

We need to have an epipen for my youngest boy as he's severely allergic to egg. They are extremely expensive in here in NZ as there is no govt. funding for them so it's cheaper to buy them from Britain and get them shipped over.

[bayonetbrant]

[DoctorQuest]

Thanks. I needed that.

[Staggerwing]

Mad Magazine can't afford a proof reader?

[Greybriar]

This reminds me of what happened a couple of years ago here in the U.S. Overnight the prices of pharmaceuticals from some companies skyrocketed. My druggist told me some drugs cost ten times what they had before the hike! Imagine receiving an order that had cost a couple of hundred dollars yesterday costing $2,000 today! And it was just before the section of Obamacare took effect that froze the prices of certain medications, according to my local pharmacist.

[airboy]

The screed Brant posted is totally inaccurate.

The FDA has repeatedly turned down generic epipens.  Europe has 8 different Eippen device providers.

Blame the government for setting up a useless monopoly.  Blame liberals (I know Brant just copied something he saw) for not understanding the fundamentals of microeconomics.  And yes, Blame Obama for putting idiots in charge of the FDA.

Here is a link to a detailed discussion, with references, about how the FDA and Federal Government Regulation created and maintained the Epipen monopoly:
http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/08/29/reverse-voxsplaining-drugs-vs-chairs/

But of course, the "solution" is even more government regulation and investigations - not allowing competition on a common device.

[OJsDad]

The FDA has repeatedly turned down generic epipens.  Europe has 8 different Eippen device providers.

This is one of those things that's never made any sense.  I understand that countries have their own standards, but why, if the EU has approved a device/drug, does the FDA not either approve at that time or fast track it. Same goes with something approved in the US and EU can then approve it or fast track. 

[Staggerwing]

The screed Brant posted is totally inaccurate.

The FDA has repeatedly turned down generic epipens.  Europe has 8 different Eippen device providers.

Blame the government for setting up a useless monopoly.  Blame liberals (I know Brant just copied something he saw) for not understanding the fundamentals of microeconomics.  And yes, Blame Obama for putting idiots in charge of the FDA.

Here is a link to a detailed discussion, with references, about how the FDA and Federal Government Regulation created and maintained the Epipen monopoly:
http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/08/29/reverse-voxsplaining-drugs-vs-chairs/

But of course, the "solution" is even more government regulation and investigations - not allowing competition on a common device.

I might be wildly off the mark but I think the Mad Magazine graphic was meant as humor, not a call to action aimed at endless hoards of zombified liberal activists and their lists of congressional contacts.

[BanzaiCat]

Personally I think pharmaceutical companies are one of the major drivers of how f*cking awful our healthcare system is. $600 for an Epipen? Thousands of dollars each for cancer medication pills? It's a ridiculous and utter rip-off across the board.

I believe that these companies could damn well cure most any disease out there, especially if they pooled their efforts, but they won't if there's no profit margin in it. They especially wouldn't create a "cure for ____" for any reason, since once it's cured, their profits on it would disappear.

I've thought a simple solution would be to make all pharmaceutical companies non-profit, but I heard the counter-argument made that they'd lose their drive for innovation, then. I can see that, but having worked for a medical non-profit company for six years, my impression is there's plenty of folks in it for the good of the work, not to get rich. And making giant billion-dollar pharmaceuticals non-profits would be, while hilarious and come-uppance to the Nth degree, fought tooth and nail by them of course.

As long as they can get away with it, they'll charge what people have to pay to get it. In the case of Epipens, they have a patent on the delivery system.

But one really has to wonder what corporate dumbass thought it was a brilliant idea to more than double the cost of something people need to, you know, not die every day, instead of just slightly increasing it. "Oh, no, nobody will complain! They'll pay it anyway if they don't want to die! Muwahahahahaha!"

The entire "half off coupon" thing is a gigantic insult. They're still jacking the price up for two pens, by about 300% even with that nonsense.

God I hate pharmaceutical companies.  :D

[Labbug]

Personally I think pharmaceutical companies are one of the major drivers of how f*cking awful our healthcare system is. $600 for an Epipen? Thousands of dollars each for cancer medication pills? It's a ridiculous and utter rip-off across the board.

I believe that these companies could damn well cure most any disease out there, especially if they pooled their efforts, but they won't if there's no profit margin in it. They especially wouldn't create a "cure for ____" for any reason, since once it's cured, their profits on it would disappear.

I've thought a simple solution would be to make all pharmaceutical companies non-profit, but I heard the counter-argument made that they'd lose their drive for innovation, then. I can see that, but having worked for a medical non-profit company for six years, my impression is there's plenty of folks in it for the good of the work, not to get rich. And making giant billion-dollar pharmaceuticals non-profits would be, while hilarious and come-uppance to the Nth degree, fought tooth and nail by them of course.

As long as they can get away with it, they'll charge what people have to pay to get it. In the case of Epipens, they have a patent on the delivery system.

But one really has to wonder what corporate dumbass thought it was a brilliant idea to more than double the cost of something people need to, you know, not die every day, instead of just slightly increasing it. "Oh, no, nobody will complain! They'll pay it anyway if they don't want to die! Muwahahahahaha!"

The entire "half off coupon" thing is a gigantic insult. They're still jacking the price up for two pens, by about 300% even with that nonsense.

God I hate pharmaceutical companies.  :D

I worked for 24 years in the pharmaceutical industry in analytical research.  We worked somewhat differently than many analytical research departments in that we worked on a drug from its inception to its introduction to market and sometimes beyond.  We developed the methods of analysis for the drug substance and the drug product(s).  We did the chemical and physical characterization of the drug substance.  We did the clinical release testing of the drug substance and the drug product as well as setting up and doing the stability studies on these materials.  I have worked with research organic chemists, development organic chemists, pharmacists, chemical engineers, toxicologists, regulatory affairs, sales and marketing.  I have had interaction with the FDA, foreign regulatory agencies and the DEA.  I have worked on antibiotics, antivirals, pain meds as well as other types of drugs.  Once a drug started development, in my experience, one in eleven got to market.  Of the ten that do not get to market, you could spend tens of millions to half a billion dollars on them.  The sooner you kill a development drug the better.   One of our drugs that got to market, had to be pulled because it started showing severe side effects.  It was in less than 1% of the users and one foreign regulatory requested it not be pulled, but it was.

The vast majority of the people I have worked with want to put, out safe and effective drugs.  Are there bad actors out there?  Yes, but they are few and far between, but they do seem to congregate in upper management.  The idea that drug companies can put out drugs with no side effects or they can create a cure for any disease they wish to, is a bunch of excrement.

   

[BanzaiCat]

I appreciate that, Labbug. My own opinion is based on a lot of other things that I've not disclosed, such as having two close family members die because of cancer, and noting how ridiculously expensive the drugs are. I'm obviously quite biased. I can, however, appreciate it being put into perspective like that.