Time Commanders is back - TV Show using the Total War engine

Destraex · December 21, 2016, 06:48:13 PM

Quote from: Cyrano on December 21, 2016, 09:50:13 AM
It is to be taken as self-evident that people enjoy what they enjoy. I just regard this show -- and the TW engine for that matter -- as a lost opportunity to truly educate. The only thing that makes me honestly peevish is that they try all the pseudo-academic bits (guys farting about with 1776s and pila) and then make mock of what they just said when they fire up the engine.

To a few specifics:

1. The engine has never known an undulation it doesn't like. The map makers seem incapable of creating gentle slopes. Problem is, there were no cliffs at Waterloo.
I thought all total war did was gentle slopes until I saw warhammer total war. Gettysburg civil war is a good example of a game that basically is impossible to tell slopes in without a squint! There are much worse things out there.

Real slopes are hard to see. What I can't stand are the Warhammer-y hills you get a lot of in Empire and Napoleon. Completely illogical and they disfigure the field.

2. The unit frontages versus the ground scale are absurd.
Completely agree. but that is total war. What if I was to say to you to think back to when you were a youngster and tabletop also had absurd scaling and terrain scaling and any computer games
you loved were completely absurd compared to total war (excluding those that do not even show frontage like counter games)

Here you open an old wound. This is why I walked away, under the tutelage of Dr. Griffith, from miniatures. They've never been able to get it right, save for 2mm scale which defeats the point.

3. The number of units is wrong.
I only know of one engine capable of even coming close to realistic unit numbers without simply turning into a counter board game on computer.

Use that engine :D.

4. One does not drag Napoleonic units about on a leash like that.
As for the leash. I do not completely agree there as there was some degree of difficulty getting orders to units as they were going from general... through captain and then to the guy actually controlling the units who was not part of the team really. Not as good as the scourge of war system I grant you but still better than most games, including turn based games that are in existence.

This is to confuse the friction of giving orders with the difficulties of controlling a 19th Century cavalry, what, regiment, squadron, they never day; but I digress. The former is one of the really good things about the show that makes the balance seem, to me, so dreadful.

5. Waterloo comes off as a meeting engagement. What's all that rubbish about "scouting" prior to the battle's start?
True, that's what you get for using people who know nothing. You get variation. I still found it fun.

This is on the presenters. Neither Napoleon nor Wellington had any doubt about where the other was. There was no need for scouting and this should have been explained -- how tough would that have been?

Grogheads Central Command Presents: MEN PLAYING AT WAR

Dr. S. and the On Target crew run the sim and Brant and Doug offer pithy commentary. I kill jeeps.

You guys should apply to play. It would be amazing. However I would bet they will cut all of what they consider "boring" from your explanations and complaints on stage. Shame really. Grogs are always marginalised in favour of the common man. Let's see how Lindy Beige does and his videos afterwards. He is a bit of a crackpot but does know at least a bit about history. As does the other lad, Scholagladiatoria?
WAIT! The show itself would be easy enough to setup online via streaming services. All you need are a few cardboard backdrops and some computers connected to the net. DONE. Of course the commentary is really what you want as well as the human interaction :(

alantaylor · December 22, 2016, 02:23:01 PM

Would be much better if they got rid of the failed grocer, Greg Wallace, and employed someone who knows something about History such as Dan Snow.

I switched straight over as soon as I saw Wallace's inane grin.

bob48 · December 22, 2016, 02:32:52 PM

Whilst I agree with you, I would hate it just as much with Dan Snow as a presenter, who I think is total a pillock. One of these days, the way he flaps his arms about, he's going to take off.

Very much personal choice, of course.

Phantom · December 22, 2016, 02:40:25 PM

In fairness Wallace does bring enthusiasm to the show, which Neusbacher used to bring prior to his "re-sexing". Also after many attempts by me it was the original iteration of this show that got my son into war-gaming so as an intro for non-wargamers I think its a good thing.
I also can enjoy it for what it is - for me its always interesting to see what people with no interest in military history make of war/battles - some do as badly as expected, others fare much better.
The show also gives people a better idea of what wargaming actually is - hopefully informing the 90% of people who think a wargame is Call of Duty or Sniper Elite.
Regards
Keith

JudgeDredd · December 22, 2016, 05:31:16 PM

Quote from: bob48 on December 22, 2016, 02:32:52 PM
Whilst I agree with you, I would hate it just as much with Dan Snow as a presenter, who I think is total a pillock. One of these days, the way he flaps his arms about, he's going to take off.

Very much personal choice, of course.

lol - say what you see bob.

I quite liked the show he and his father did - 20th Century Battlefields I think. Quite quick, no messing around and some good historical detail for the time allowed. I bought the book and the DVD and they were both excellent.

Cyrano · December 22, 2016, 05:42:38 PM

Oh, Destraex.

If you only knew what you started in my head.

Doug, Asid, guys, whatcha doin' over Christmas :D.

Best,

Jim

jomni · December 22, 2016, 07:29:46 PM

Destraex. Welcome to the Grogheads by the way.

Destraex · December 22, 2016, 07:54:47 PM

Thanks Jomni. Good to see you as well.

Father Ted · December 24, 2016, 06:59:30 PM

Watched the Napoleon one, and I loved the way that the battle ended in the way that all TW battles seem to end - the last unrouted units on each side trying to nail the enemy general.

besilarius · December 26, 2016, 09:25:42 AM

The shows have loads of nits to pick. Totally agree with that.
But for younger kids looking at a hobby, they are a great gateway drug.
When I was a kid, it was shows like Combat, The Gallant Men, Victory at Sea, Airpower, and so many more on commercial television.]
Today, there are so few shows thatwould engage me. Seen as an introduction for beginners, who aren't sure if they could like history, makes this almost worthwhile.

Cyrano · December 26, 2016, 11:46:49 AM

@Destraex: Your arrival was so seamless, I didn't notice you coming in :D. Great to see you!

Omnia: I have an eight-year-old. I want him to appreciate the hobby (those who have hung out with him at Origins know he's already groggier than many). Certainly Dr. S.'s son is well on the Paduan path in his own way. Frankly, and I do not jest, I spent a chunk of time in senior facilities over the holiday and was wondering why no one plays games with their kids. They've got a ton of recreational space and it's usually unused. All equal, it's how I figure my son and I will while away his visits when the time comes.

Add to that that I did a history show at a RenFaire for 14 years. Sure it was silly and big, but it was accurate too. Suggesting they can't be both is a classic example of the fallacy of the wicked alternative.

Consider yourself all cast in my spec script by default. I'll need ringers for the first two teams. MD and Vance are the commanders (for my own reasons); Dr. S., Cap'n Darwin, Rob, and Brant run the sim; Doug, Jason, and Mirth offer pithy commentary; and I'm the carnival-barker host.

The crew in the "Six Days" KS prove to me that there's a great deal of both wit and historical insight here that COULD -- stress COULD -- be made interesting.

I have a plan.

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

MetalDog · December 26, 2016, 03:17:33 PM

Quote from: Cyrano on December 26, 2016, 11:46:49 AM
@Destraex: Your arrival was so seamless, I didn't notice you coming in :D. Great to see you!

Omnia: I have an eight-year-old. I want him to appreciate the hobby (those who have hung out with him at Origins know he's already groggier than many). Certainly Dr. S.'s son is well on the Paduan path in his own way. Frankly, and I do not jest, I spent a chunk of time in senior facilities over the holiday and was wondering why no one plays games with their kids. They've got a ton of recreational space and it's usually unused. All equal, it's how I figure my son and I will while away his visits when the time comes.

Add to that that I did a history show at a RenFaire for 14 years. Sure it was silly and big, but it was accurate too. Suggesting they can't be both is a classic example of the fallacy of the wicked alternative.

Consider yourself all cast in my spec script by default. I'll need ringers for the first two teams. MD and Vance are the commanders (for my own reasons); Dr. S., Cap'n Darwin, Rob, and Brant run the sim; Doug, Jason, and Mirth offer pithy commentary; and I'm the carnival-barker host.

The crew in the "Six Days" KS prove to me that there's a great deal of both wit and historical insight here that COULD -- stress COULD -- be made interesting.

I have a plan.

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

Ummmmm...Cyrano? Should I be nervous?

Father Ted · December 26, 2016, 07:12:44 PM

Quote from: besilarius on December 26, 2016, 09:25:42 AM
The shows have loads of nits to pick. Totally agree with that.
But for younger kids looking at a hobby, they are a great gateway drug.

Agree wholeheartedly, and it's a shame that (as far as I can see) no one mentions the fact that they're playing a videogame which is available to all

Cyrano · December 26, 2016, 07:29:59 PM

@MD: Always. Only steel sharpens steel...or some other aphorism appropriate to the moment.

@Father Ted: I certainly did mentioned it and that it's rubbish from a history perspective. Napoleon is absolutely the worst of the lot. I hate myself for enjoying it aesthetically as much as I do. I want there to be something better and believe there can be. We settle too easily.

Father Ted · December 26, 2016, 08:53:45 PM

@ Cyrano - I meant that it's not mentioned on the programme that they're playing a commercially-available videogame.

My point being that the programme could very well act as an introduction to our hobby, but , as far as I can tell, if you didn't already know that they were playing TW, you'd think it was just TV, not something you could easily buy and play yourself.