The Witcher 3

[mirth]

[Gusington]

Exactly.

[ghostryder]

LOL.

The point is...Witchers are not supernatural beings as is claimed above. They are mutated humans. Through Alchemy and a bit of magic...but not supernatural. They are not immortal. What gets them through combat is their lifelong training. That training isn't just Bruce lee at Matrix speed. It's the study of the beasts and demons. Oils and potions. And low level magic through signs. Combined with his body skills gives him an edge.

And again...in this game none of that matters. The only thing that determines the outcome of combat is your twitch response as in dodging and rolling. Fail that...you die. Do it right...you win. It is THE ONLY deciding factor. And that is NOT Witcher Lore.

the combat is BS to the lore. It literally throws the lore out so the player can partake in console action gaming. Oils and potions are treated as mere lip service to the lore of the books. they can be completely ignored. A lot of players don't bother. Some don't even bother with potions or ever look up a monster to discover what oil to use. It is, after all with this lame ass combat system rather pointless.

[JudgeDredd]

I'm glad I don't know anything about the series, the lore or the books - because I can thoroughly enjoy the game as a game.

I'm not being facetious here - I genuinely mean it. By knowing more about something (a period of history, an aircraft, a tank, a series) it can ruin your gaming experience (same for other mediums like films for example)

[MikeGER]

The only thing that determines the outcome of combat is your twith response as in dodging and rolling. Fail that...you die. Do it right...you win. It is THE ONLY deciding factor.

no, not my experience!

IIRC  i had to fight some ghost-women in a side quest i took and died a lot.
(I had to ignore that quest several times and came back several times for another attempt later in a better leveled up situation.... i am not sure if that quest is not still open today in my last save-game;-) ) 
I was not able to do enuf damage until i had the right combination of oils and portions and a good blade and sufficient armor and sign-powers to see a chance ... jumping and rolling didn't helped to deal the damage and that bitch seemed to be recovering fast when not trapped or hit enuf.   

you are correct their might be a console kiddy out there that honed its evading-rolls skills to the max
but with a boring shitload of his lifetime wasted to train the skills to win a fight with a vanilla-Gerald figure and a starters blade   ...and to later brag about his silly achievement to the world on YT video .

but that's not a fun way to enjoy the game and the story 
its just a long long grind of training to hone a gamy trick to overcome the game mechanics, like Sport Stacking nonsense with plastic cups.

and if i remember the novels well, light of foot evading skill is an important part of Witcher education so it has to be in the game somehow , he is not a tank who put up a stand-up fight like a Conan the Barbarian
even so the evading skill from the novels are not portrayed nice in the game with this 'jump and roll'. it should be more like a backward sidestep swirl 'dance of a fencers' (i don't have the right English expression for it.... you get the idea)           

[ghostryder]

I'm glad I don't know anything about the series, the lore or the books - because I can thoroughly enjoy the game as a game.

I'm not being facetious here - I genuinely mean it. By knowing more about something (a period of history, an aircraft, a tank, a series) it can ruin your gaming experience (same for other mediums like films for example)

It does have it's downside...that's for sure. Watching Bethseda mangle Tamreil was a nightmare. The grandest city of them all...portrayed in Oblivion couldn't even be compared to vivec in Morrowind. Lost ancient crepts...every ten feet you were tripping over them. Skyrim brought back some of that space and openness that was all squashed and minimized in oblivion....to of course fit in the 256k ram of an xbox.

[Gusington]

Witchers are not immortal, true. But the existence of alchemy and magic and the Witchers' use of them to some degree shows a level of supernatural influence. The supernatural is a part of the whole Witcher world and the way it is presented (in a subdued) way is one of the reasons I like it so much.

And I enjoy Witcher 3 combat...for me it went from impossible to figure out in Witcher 2 to fun and fast in Witcher 3.

[ghostryder]

Come on Gus. your reaching. just because witchers fight supernatural beings doesn't make witchers supernatural. By your logic even the victims of said supernatural beings would be supernatural. Magic-mana-is not in itself supernatural either. It's a power source. And magic overall -much like LOTR-is used sparingly and at low levels. In that 3 movie trilogy I don't think Gandalf used magic more than 4 times. In the hobbit he used his sword almost exclusively.

In the witcher most Kings have their own mage--and that mage basically deals in potions and such. in rare instances-like during an assasination attempt-will you see them use it. There's a couple quests regarding evil mages-but like the sole combat example given above...one encounter doesn't make it common. What you and MikeGer are claiming is that one isolated battle/quest somehow mirrors the other hundreds of battles/quests in the game. Hogwash. As a general rule combat is all twitch. And the twitch decides if you win or die. Nothing else. Even with difficulty cranked up you can count on one hand when any of that ever matters. And generally it's moreso a 'not being high enough in level' rather than you must use a certain oil.

Saying that of the three titles this is the best combat---although witcher 1 really did require the correct oils or you had a very hard time. witcher 2 was so bad I couldn't get far in the game. This...although I'm certainly not a fan of the combat is something I can at least tolerate to experience the rest of the game. So don't let this discussion sway you away from the game. I only expanded on it because people were wrongly saying a witcher was some supernatural being with unearthly abilities.

All his abilities are in fact earthly.

but imagine how cool it would be if things came down to those oils and beast database---

[mirth]

Batman isn't supernatural either, but I don't want him to fight like a regular dude. And I don't get upset by the Arkham games because Batman has superhuman abilities and James Bond gadgets.

Witchers, by dint of their training and enhancements by potions, etc, possess superhuman abilities. You can be pedantic and claim the high ground that they aren't 'supernatural', but the notion that they are regular dudes is ludicrous.

[mirth]

Taken in as children, witchers-to-be are subjected to intense alchemical processes, consumption of mutagenic compounds, and relentless physical and magical training to make them dangerous and highly versatile against their vast array of opponents, many of which possess superhuman speed, strength and/or other deadly powers. These procedures ultimately mean that each fully-trained witcher is a mutant built specifically to hunt and kill inhuman prey. The key permanent results of mutations shared by all witchers include:

   
• Sterility (which partially explains selection from the outsiders, as they cannot breed to pass on their traits).
• Cat-like eyes that grant very acute nightvision - witchers can constrict their pupils to see in blinding light or open them to see in near pitch darkness. This nightvision can be further enhanced with the cat potion, but in general, it is good enough by itself to not require further enhancement.
• Tremendous resistance to disease (which functions in most cases as complete immunity) and a boosted immune system, allowing them to consume large quantities of potions that could prove easily deadly if consumed even in small amounts by a normal man.
• Exceptionally increased strength, speed, reflexes, and endurance, far beyond any normal or well-trained human, that allows them to swiftly end fights with minimal effort, and perform physical feats non-witchers couldn't hope to match. A witcher's physical skills alone are sufficient to defeat most monsters single-handedly if combined with extensive training and proper weaponry, whereas regular men could only hope to accomplish this in large groups. Witchers have also been shown to shrug off hits that would normally render normal men unconscious. Additionally, they have been known to survive the strikes of powerful monsters such as giants, or other beings possessing heruculean strength, that would otherwise kill others with a single blow.   
• Having the ability to perform simple yet incredibly versatile combat magic in the form of signs. They also develop a sixth sense that allows them to "feel" things around them, be it items of importance or people's immediate intentions. This explains their uncanny ability to track and hunt people and monsters.
• Accelerated healing granting quick recovery from injuries.
• Incredibly long lifespan and prolonged youth (Vesemir is said to be at least a few centuries old but has the appearance of a middle-aged man).

Gee, if only my uber-trained, mutant monsterslayer fought like a regular human  ::)

[Gusington]

To clarify, I think if Witchers embrace supernatural oils and potions and other practices, which they do, it makes them to some degree supernatural.

[ghostryder]

If you read the books-of which all have not been translated---or view episodes of the old witcher series that was produced--combat is always a chore and is always full of danger. Never...ever...does he non chalantly just battle his way ala Batman or superman---many are very close calls and he barely...just barely succeeds.

That is the drama. The always present  possability he overlooks something and gets his ass handed to him. and BTW that is exactly why witcher numbers are diminishing. Mutated to live long is an oxymoron as most witchers die young in battle. With the pressures of bigotry recruit numbers shrank--to the point they can't replenish to replace the fallen.

It is also intellectually dishonest to invoke the comic book soap opera worlds of Batman in an argument in The witcher worlds. It's as rediculous as bringing it into the game of Thrones. because that adult dark fantasy of Game of Thrones is exactly the gendre The Witcher resides in. And there's no one going around like batman in the Game of Thrones.

And Gus-your making false statements to argue false statements. Potions and oils are Alchemy. They are not Supernatural. There is no such thing as a supernatural oil or potion in the Witcher world. They battle the supernatural--that's as close as it comes.

[Gusington]

If you're going to reference Game of Thrones, how would you categorize everything north of The Wall? Are the White Walkers supernatural?

And how would you categorize alchemy itself and the powers alchemy gives to The Witcher? The powers alchemy gives are not natural, they are a step above natural, at least.

[mirth]

If you read the books-of which all have not been translated---or view episodes of the old witcher series that was produced--combat is always a chore and is always full of danger. Never...ever...does he non chalantly just battle his way ala Batman or superman---many are very close calls and he barely...just barely succeeds.

I don't give a rat's ass about the books. I am interested in playing a video game. And I want to feel like a badass monster-slayer while I am slaying the monsters.

It is also intellectually dishonest to invoke the comic book soap opera worlds of Batman in an argument in The witcher worlds. It's as rediculous as bringing it into the game of Thrones. because that adult dark fantasy of Game of Thrones is exactly the gendre The Witcher resides in. And there's no one going around like batman in the Game of Thrones.

Because the Witcher universe is entirely grounded in reality? Mutant monster-slayers fighting demons, witches and super natural monsters. Sounds realistic to me. I mean, we're talking Buffy the Vampire Slayer levels of realism.

[ghostryder]

You've missed my point. my point is there's comic book Lore and there's witcher lore. Apples and oranges. doesn't matter what batman does in the comics- he isn't in the witcher universe. My argument from the get go is the combat betrays the Lore. Involking batman in the debate is rather pointless.

I don't give a rat's ass about the books. I am interested in playing a video game. And I want to feel like a badass monster-slayer while I am slaying the monsters.


Which is how they get away with it. It's how Walmart becomes number one. Low expectations and low bars. Thus you get what you want and another fine world gets dumbed down for the xbox crowd.