Israel

[al_infierno]

How anyone could cheer what Hamas has done is beyond my understanding - absolutely revolting and moronic.

I've spent a good deal of time trying to understand what goes into this sentiment.  Without going too much into political stuff, this is how I see it.

It's basically a mixture of freedom-fighter romanticization (e.g. "they're revolutionaries fighting against an establishment who oppresses them, they're in the right no matter what methods they use!") and this extremely weird, maladjusted view that "decolonization" means if you are native to a land, you have carte blanche to retake that land by any means possible.

Most baffling and infuriating are white Americans who claim that if Native American commandos wanted to kill them, they would gladly support that cause and hand themselves over to a deserving death.  I guarantee you there's no way in hell these people actually mean what they're saying - human nature would have them running for the hills with all their belongings on the back if such an event actually happened - and they just don't want to admit they're massive hypocrites.

What is truly unbelievable to me is the number of openly gay and transgender people who have expressed support for Hamas's attacks, seemingly unaware that Hamas is a literal Islamic extremist group who would gladly stone and behead them given the chance.

Oh, there's also a pretty healthy dose of antisemitism.

[Gusington]

^Antisemitism for sure, and good old-fashioned ignorance.

The video of Times Square above reminds of those Black Israelite lunatics I would see regularly when I worked in Manhattan.

I'm sure they are beyond excited now as well.

[SirAndrewD]

Hamas also wants full scale action against Gaza.  That's their intent. 

They want to goad Israel into the most extreme action possible because it always has jumpstarted their recruitment cycle.

Hamas absolutely wants and needs massive, heavy handed military action in Gaza.  Every day there's peace and no dead Palestinians is a defeat for them.

In these events Israel has been very reliable to respond and engage in heavy military action that includes a lot of collateral damage.  That is what feeds Hamas' ranks. 

Iran understands this as well which is why they're pressing.

Iran's main goal is for Israel to devastate and level Gaza to such an extent that Jordan and Egypt and Saudi Arabia fall away from détente.  The idea of peace has come too close to fruition for them.

[Gusington]

^I get that.

What I don't get is the blind support for such reprehensible, disgusting actions. Killing children and old people? Cheering for that?

[al_infierno]

^I get that.

What I don't get is the blind support for such reprehensible, disgusting actions. Killing children and old people? Cheering for that?

"Settlers are combatants" is the so-called "anticolonial" justification I see widely on these big Twitter accounts.  Yes, if you live in Israel, these ghouls think you're fair game.  And that's not even mentioning the tourists and visitors who just happened to be present.

Pretty plainly advocating for genocide.

[SirAndrewD]

^I get that.

What I don't get is the blind support for such reprehensible, disgusting actions. Killing children and old people? Cheering for that?

Can't help you there. 

I would remind them of Omar Mukhtar who fought the Italians in Lybia.

A true moment was immortalized in film.

Mukhtar ambushed an Italian military column and his fighters effectively slaughtered most of the defenders, but a handful of survivors were left. 

Mukhtar took the Italian flag from one of the vehicles and ordered his men to not harm the prisoners.  He gave them safe passage back to their men and gave them their flag and said "Tell your leaders this doesn't belong here".

Mukhtar's men protested and wanted to kill the prisoners.  One argued "They kill our civilians, they murder our prisoners".

Mukhtar responded "They are not our teachers".

[JasonPratt]

Update on church group: passports have been put on hold, so they cannot legally leave the nation outside of control of Israel (which in context is understandable). Plan to go south into Egypt and make way to Cairo, scrapped. Plan to cross the river into Jordan to get to an airport, also scrapped.

No harm yet. Holding at the hotel.

[Gusington]

^How many of them are there?

[GDS_Starfury]

[Gusington]

Good, even-handed video with a lot of detailed background.

[Sir Slash]

We also have friends in a church group that just returned from Israel on Friday. Very lucky people. I wonder which Iowa Class BB we can get out of mothball or museums quickest and lend to Israel for some 16 inch Urban Renewal efforts over there? That would even be worth watching MSNBC to see.

[SirAndrewD]

I wonder which Iowa Class BB we can get out of mothball or museums quickest and lend to Israel for some 16 inch Urban Renewal efforts over there? That would even be worth watching MSNBC to see.

How many of the 42% of Palestinians in Gaza that hate and refuse to support Hamas do you want to die for your urban renewal with 16 inch guns or nuclear weapons?

You wanted nukes by your own statement.  In Hiroshima women and children went to lakes and pools to cool their injuries and when they wiped their arms their skin came off revealing their muscles. 

How much of that will delight you of those that that just wanted to not be in the line of the fire? 

Heck, lets use VX.  Let's establish processing centers and just employ some Zyklon B. 

"They are not our teachers". 

[Jarhead0331]

^everyone relax and keep the discussion focused on the tactical and strategic discussion.

[Skoop]

You know, I feel slash's rage.  It's hard not to go kickass on this.  SirAndrew is right though, scorched earth in gaza will just make more Hamas recruits.  Seeing the Saudi deal through could be the real fuck you to Iran.

[MikeGER]

 scorched earth is not the solution, but Hamas and all who had beeen or are willing to support them in Gaza has to be rooted out.

Its not an Israeli thing alone.
Ít is a small 911 (especially that music festival)  with victims from a lot of nations  Americans , French, Thai , Germans, ... 
 
It doesn't matter how precise and careful as best as they could the IFD neutralizes valid targets.
The Palestine Pallywood Production will flood the Media with dead baby body videos, even faked, and older ones from other conflicts anyway and cry genozid
and that has already strated ...check X formaly known as Twitter.

From a wargamers point of view:
I would go in the South and occupy a maybe 5 click stretch along the Egyptian border. This will cut off the underground railroad into Egypt, and give some access to the tunnel network. On the surface I would declare a humanitarian corridor where elderly, women and children can walk into Egypt at the Rafah Crossing Point  and then get imideatly shuttled to the West Bank, where the UN HCR can set up a temporary shelter. Egypt doesnt want a Palestine refugee camp on its teritory, for good reasons.   
Then I would slowly roll up the Gaza strip from the North to South, so people willing to flee have a save escape route.