Israel

[MikeGER]

I don't really see how you can look at this image and characterize it as the result of precise strikes and not mass bombing. By all accounts, swathes of Gaza is being leveled.

what happens in Gaza is still plinking

take a look at Berlin 1945

there is an estimate of about 40 000 Hamas fighters and about 15 000 of that Palastine Jihadists group in Gaza

now take into accout, like in all armies, as a rule of thumb for every fighting frontline soldier you need 10 in the logistic chain, here probably in plain clothes without a uniform or batch or brassard to identify in the mortuary or on media vids

so call me again about casualities when the Gaza death toll is the low single digits of hundred thousands
and btw if someone is able and willing to haul lets say an RPG warhead to the front line (like HJ with a Panzerfaust) its a valid target beside its  young age

especially if he had spit on that festival dancing girl, lying in the pickup 3 weeks ago... i spare us the repost 

[MikeGER]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1718561318360564096

https://twitter.com/i/status/1718578538108932364

London has fallen 

looks like we (the West) have let way to many of the wrong people into our countries   

[Jarhead0331]

I don't really see how you can look at this image and characterize it as the result of precise strikes and not mass bombing. By all accounts, swathes of Gaza is being leveled. Was every one of the buildings in this picture a command, logistical, or offensive site?

As for the Ukraine comparison, the obvious difference is that Ukraine isn't bombing any Russian cities as far as I'm aware, and certainly not to the extent that Gaza is getting bombed.

JH I agree that the blood is on Hamas's hands. My point was that when this is over, I'm concerned Hamas will actually grow stronger due to further radicalization of Palestinians toward their cause.

Buildings are still standing and people are still living. Seems restrained from my perspective. My point is that when this is over, bombing or not, Hamas will still grow stronger because regardless, children will be taught to kill and hate. How would you go about handling a group of people that do not believe you have a right to exist? just how careful and discriminant would you be?

[Groggy]

Meanwhile on the West Bank...

"A Jewish settler shot dead a Palestinian man harvesting olives near the West Bank city of Nablus, the man's uncle said Sunday. This brings the number of Palestinians reported killed by settlers to seven since Hamas's bloody incursion into Israel three weeks ago."

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/israeli-settler-shoots-kills-palestinian-harvester-violence-surges-104457880

[JasonPratt]

"Settler leader Yossi Dagan said in a video posted on the social media p(platform Facebook Saturday that the shooter was accompanied by family members and fired in self-defense after they were "attacked with rocks by dozens of rioting Hamas supporters." -- same article.

It's possible both stories are true, and the guy was mistakenly shot trying to get his family away from the conflict. Or one or the other side (or both) is flatly lying to protect themselves. I think it's worth noting that both stories include protection of family members from the violence. (And both testimonies are second-or-thirdhand.)

The ABC article points out that a lot of the 100 deaths in the West Bank since the war started, occurred during military raids and violent protests. Only ('only') seven have been shot by Jewish settlers in the area.

There is at least some hope that the death will be investigated properly, instead of Jews dancing in the streets and showing their children how to deal with Palestinian dogs etc. Depends on who's running the rule of law in the West Bank and how civilized they regard the rule of law to be.

[al_infierno]

Buildings are still standing and people are still living. Seems restrained from my perspective. My point is that when this is over, bombing or not, Hamas will still grow stronger because regardless, children will be taught to kill and hate. How would you go about handling a group of people that do not believe you have a right to exist? just how careful and discriminant would you be?

So if Hamas will grow stronger after this regardless of what happens, what exactly is the bombing accomplishing?  I thought the goal was to root out and destroy Hamas.  At what point is the population of Palestine sufficiently eradicated to ensure that Israel is safe from Hamas?

People across the West are crying about genocide against Palestine at the hands of Isreal, and I've been very incredulous of these statements... but if the goal is truly to eradicate Hamas by any means possible, and the chosen means are to level Gaza indiscriminately, I have to ask at what point will victory be declared and how much of the population will be spared.  I know they've been radicalized since they were children, but so were the Germans in 1945.

And as for your question, I don't have an answer because I truly don't know and I'm glad I'm not in the position to make the decision.  Maybe I'm being naive.

what happens in Gaza is still plinking

take a look at Berlin 1945


there is an estimate of about 40 000 Hamas fighters and about 15 000 of that Palastine Jihadists group in Gaza

now take into accout, like in all armies, as a rule of thumb for every fighting frontline soldier you need 10 in the logistic chain, here probably in plain clothes without a uniform or batch or brassard to identify in the mortuary or on media vids

so call me again about casualities when the Gaza death toll is the low single digits of hundred thousands
and btw if someone is able and willing to haul lets say an RPG warhead to the front line (like HJ with a Panzerfaust) its a valid target beside its  young age

especially if he had spit on that festival dancing girl, lying in the pickup 3 weeks ago... i spare us the repost 

From the stats I looked up, Berlin had a population of 4 million prior to WWII and Gaza had a population of 400,000 in 2017.  Hardly apt to compare death tolls. However, I can't agree with "children are valid targets because they're able to haul RPGs" - this line of thinking will create multiple honest-to-goodness terrorists for every "terrorist" child that's killed.

And yeah, I'm still furious about the massacre on 10/7.  I still believe Hamas needs to be destroyed and held accountable.  I'm just not convinced that leveling Gaza indiscriminately is going to solve anything or make the region a better place for anyone - Israelis included.

[GDS_Starfury]

I dont think what Israel is doing is indiscriminate.

[Gusington]

10/7 was pretty indiscriminate in its slaughter of Jews. Did anyone ask Hamas to be more specific and target only IDF? I already know the answer.

That said, it's the age old question - how to destroy a terrorist without creating 10 more to take his place. I dunno.

Brainwashing, poverty and propaganda don't help either.

This whole disaster is really opening my naive eyes on how anti-Jew hate still thrives. I did like to think it was less now in 2023 than it had been 100 years ago leading up to WWII.

May as well make it an Olympic sport at this point.

[al_infierno]

Just to be clear I'm not suddenly supporting Palestine and I'm still very much on the side of Israel defending itself.  I just want to ask what I see as the "hard questions" about the long term implications of Israel's current response.  As many others have pointed out, it seems like a similar dynamic to America post-9/11 and as we all know, our response to 9/11 didn't exactly work out well for the region seeing as Al-Qaeda is not just alive, but thriving.

[Gusington]

^I don't think anyone here sees you as a Hamas supporter - your questions pre-date 9/11 too.

[JasonPratt]

The Enforcer collects some more information about the Dagestan attack. Evidently the mob did catch and take off some Israeli citizens to lynch them.

[GDS_Starfury]

who protested this?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1718241412590821464

[GDS_Starfury]

US logistics is a fucking thing to behold!

[GDS_Starfury]

and the Med is our fucking lake.

[Groggy]

Netanyahu wanted Hamas as a counterweight to the PLO and the Palestinian Authority for the purpose of undermining both. At the time, this may have seemed like good realpolitik. In retrospect, it was an unwise and exceedingly dangerous strategy to pursue.

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-future-of-hamas-after-october-7-2023-part-1/