Age of Rifles and other classics…

[em2nought]

Hi, first post here. I purchased the GOG version of AoR and spent some time refamiliarizing with the game.  I am now trying to activate Norm Koger's (the programmer)imbedded advanced rules using a command line switch in the shortcut, to no avail. It seems the path goes thru the dos box folder and then several config files..

The original game path and added command at the end would have looked something like c:/Program Files/Age of Rifles/aor.exe oldrules+ .

It made the game significantly harder.


Anyone attempt to activate? ( or even know what I'm referring too ? Haha)

I hesitate to post a link but it's easy to find Norm Kogers home page, go to his games section and click on AoR where he has quite a few sections which dive deep into the mechanics of the game, as well as all the official and unofficial command line switches.  Good stuff in there even if you're not interested in mucking about with advanced rules.  Cheers!

Welcome on your first post!!! Keep'em coming!!

I always liked Koger's games because of their in-depth nerdiness.

In terms of being a gritty wargame wonk, Koger's only peer in pc game land is Gary Grigsby IMHO.

My only issue with Koger is that he seems to have dropped out of doing wargames, or games in general. A loss for all of us.

Maybe Koger's experience with Storm Eagle Studios and Jim Rose's toxic approach to marketing and pissing-off customers, left Koger cold? 

Anyway, I seem to vaguely remember the advanced rules switch in AoR. Thanks for reminding me.

Hopefully he blames Jim Rose instead of the customers who wouldn't have hesitated one second to snag his games otherwise.  I was so bummed.

[bobarossa]

I have a vague memory (aren't they all these days) that Koger had basically sold his soul in his contract with Jim Rose and decided to do nothing rather than continue having to use that relationship. 

I don't recall the advanced rules at all.  Will have to check them out when I get around to trying the game again (already bought it this week).

[TheGrayMouser]

Hi, first post here. I purchased the GOG version of AoR and spent some time refamiliarizing with the game.  I am now trying to activate Norm Koger's (the programmer)imbedded advanced rules using a command line switch in the shortcut, to no avail. It seems the path goes thru the dos box folder and then several config files..

The original game path and added command at the end would have looked something like c:/Program Files/Age of Rifles/aor.exe oldrules+ .

It made the game significantly harder.


Anyone attempt to activate? ( or even know what I'm referring too ? Haha)

I hesitate to post a link but it's easy to find Norm Kogers home page, go to his games section and click on AoR where he has quite a few sections which dive deep into the mechanics of the game, as well as all the official and unofficial command line switches.  Good stuff in there even if you're not interested in mucking about with advanced rules.  Cheers!



 

Never played the original or with the options you stated, but at least for the Steam version there is a file called rifles-eng-game.conf which contains the startup command line for the game, like below.  You could try putting the option after the line with Rifles.exe.

[autoexec]
@echo off
mount C GAME
imgmount D AgeOfRifles_EN.cue -t iso
config -securemode
C:
CLS
CD RIFLES
RIFLES.EXE
exit

Awesome, thank you sir that did it!
I fumbled around as I thought you meant its own line ie below the exe but ended up figuring it out. One needs to enter Koger's command line(s) like so ( in bold):

@echo off
mount C GAME
imgmount D AgeOfRifles_EN.cue -t iso
config -securemode
C:
CLS
CD RIFLES
RIFLES.EXE oldrules+
exit

Be advised I think Koger notes that these command(s) are sticky, so if you try oldrules+ and don't like it, one would presumably need to replace the added command to oldrules- to revert back.

You can tell that you did it correctly by looking at the credits screen and it will display the full version of the  game 1.4.01 instead of 1.4.  Also if you launch a scenario and click on a selected unit card/graphic for details on the units and its weapons, its will show actual numerical values for various firing ranges and not the verbose "fair at 2 hexes, poor at 3" etc.

Of note to some as well, the GAME/Rifles folder ( at least in the GOG version) has a couple of read me texts that basically are the same as on Koger's website with all his command line switches and what they do.

Now that I have this a**l retentive monkey off my back I can go enjoy the game!

Cheers!

[SirAndrewD]

I'm pretty sure the Rose thing was the nail in the coffin for him.

Shame too, his games were and still are SO good. 

Anyone that plays AoR now for the first time are obviously overcoming an ancient interface and hard to deal with overall map with lack of zoom but man, you can see how it struck the balance between ease of use and crunch. 

And at the time it was an AMAZING looking game.  It was like pushing around toy soldiers in a nice fast to learn crunchy wargame that covered an era that was untouched before and is still neglected though it heartens me that WDS is addressing it.

I'd love to see the game as it functions updated to modern standards though.  It seems such a no brainer design and balance of looks and gameplay that I can't believe it hasn't been emulated.

[em2nought]

I'd love to see the game as it functions updated to modern standards though.  It seems such a no brainer design and balance of looks and gameplay that I can't believe it hasn't been emulated.

Somebody kinda tried and it's darn cheap at the moment https://store.steampowered.com/app/1679290/Fire__Maneuver/

[SirAndrewD]

Somebody kinda tried and it's darn cheap at the moment https://store.steampowered.com/app/1679290/Fire__Maneuver/

Oh, I have it and it's not the same. 

The UI is obtrusive and can't really be scaled and it's concept of queued orders is interesting but not really the same as AoR.

Also the engine, last time I tried, can't even remotely reach or replicate the scale of engagement of AoR or emulate actual battles.

AoR effectively has battles like Alma, Königgrätz, Sedan and Solferino reasonably accurately represented.  F&M has nothing of the sort last time I gave it a go.

I had super high hopes F&M was the game to replace AoR but it really didn't seem to fit the bill.

[Grim.Reaper]

I'm pretty sure the Rose thing was the nail in the coffin for him.

Shame too, his games were and still are SO good. 

Anyone that plays AoR now for the first time are obviously overcoming an ancient interface and hard to deal with overall map with lack of zoom but man, you can see how it struck the balance between ease of use and crunch. 

And at the time it was an AMAZING looking game.  It was like pushing around toy soldiers in a nice fast to learn crunchy wargame that covered an era that was untouched before and is still neglected though it heartens me that WDS is addressing it.

I'd love to see the game as it functions updated to modern standards though.  It seems such a no brainer design and balance of looks and gameplay that I can't believe it hasn't been emulated.

As someone who didn't play the original, just a few of my observations.

-  Graphics/UI are certainly dated, but not unexpected.  Not a huge concern for me.

-  I'll admit not having better zoom options does make it harder to play, just can't see enough of the battlefield.

-  My biggest issue so far is with the AI itself.  Could have sworn I have read in places people praising how good the AI was.  Maybe it was for back in the day, but this is the part that likely prevent me from playing that long.  I am no expert at these games, but the AI seems brain dead.  They clearly prioritize objectives which they should, but they make a beeline for them regardless of the situation.  And they don't always seemingly go after the right ones.  I had a couple of units a few hexes away from 3 objectives, while the enemy had a good size force.  They completely ignored the near objectives and made a run for others a long ways away and wouldn't have gotten the same points.  Saw the AI leave a single artillery unit behind to defend an area, while I had overwhelming force in the area.  It wasn't like they were lagging behind the rest, the movements were purposeful to stay behind and engage the force.  Maybe you could call it a delaying action, but odd to do with artillery which is so valuable and would be fairly easy to rush.  Many other odd things I have see so I could go on and on.

With all that said, no regrets in buying as I always wanted to play it and I am sure it was great back in the day, especially how simple it seems, but going to be hard for me to invest time playing against the AI and at the same time deal with the UI constraints.

[ArizonaTank]

I picked up Great Naval Battles.

I loved the system back in the day, and I was happy to see that after so many years, the interface has aged well. I didn't have much time to play with it yet, but what I saw left me happy and excited.

It's wonderful that the package contains all 5 GNB games. Fully covers WWII (North Atlantic, Med, Pacific) and even has a Plan Orange scenario. As a bonus, the last game covers WWI.

I will check out gameplay over the next weeks and see how the AI holds up.

[ArizonaTank]

-  My biggest issue so far is with the AI itself.  Could have sworn I have read in places people praising how good the AI was.  Maybe it was for back in the day, but this is the part that likely prevent me from playing that long.  I am no expert at these games, but the AI seems brain dead.  They clearly prioritize objectives which they should, but they make a beeline for them regardless of the situation.  And they don't always seemingly go after the right ones.  I had a couple of units a few hexes away from 3 objectives, while the enemy had a good size force.  They completely ignored the near objectives and made a run for others a long ways away and wouldn't have gotten the same points.  Saw the AI leave a single artillery unit behind to defend an area, while I had overwhelming force in the area.  It wasn't like they were lagging behind the rest, the movements were purposeful to stay behind and engage the force.  Maybe you could call it a delaying action, but odd to do with artillery which is so valuable and would be fairly easy to rush.  Many other odd things I have see so I could go on and on.

AI in those old games is an interesting topic.

Games like AoR routinely had random maps, and random campaigns. That means the AI couldn't be scripted and had to be dynamic. The result was often very simplistic sparring. AI hardly ever got better over time. In those days, there was only a very thin feedback pipe from customers, and inefficient ways to update the software. The AI that the game shipped with almost never got a major update.

[Grim.Reaper]

-  My biggest issue so far is with the AI itself.  Could have sworn I have read in places people praising how good the AI was.  Maybe it was for back in the day, but this is the part that likely prevent me from playing that long.  I am no expert at these games, but the AI seems brain dead.  They clearly prioritize objectives which they should, but they make a beeline for them regardless of the situation.  And they don't always seemingly go after the right ones.  I had a couple of units a few hexes away from 3 objectives, while the enemy had a good size force.  They completely ignored the near objectives and made a run for others a long ways away and wouldn't have gotten the same points.  Saw the AI leave a single artillery unit behind to defend an area, while I had overwhelming force in the area.  It wasn't like they were lagging behind the rest, the movements were purposeful to stay behind and engage the force.  Maybe you could call it a delaying action, but odd to do with artillery which is so valuable and would be fairly easy to rush.  Many other odd things I have see so I could go on and on.

AI in those old games is an interesting topic.

Games like AoR routinely had random maps, and random campaigns. That means the AI couldn't be scripted and had to be dynamic. The result was often very simplistic sparring. AI hardly ever got better over time. In those days, there was only a very thin feedback pipe from customers, and inefficient ways to update the software. The AI that the game shipped with almost never got a major update.

Yep, although I didn't play this specific game, I played many of SSI and such other games back in the day:)  The fact social media didn't exist was actually a plus in my mind as didn't see countless negative stuff or nit picking, simply enjoyed it for what it was.  Even lack of patches didn't bother me because I just played the game, didn't wait for the eventual patches to come out like happens today.  Still believe wargaming was "more fun" back then for me, even though certainly the games nowadays are impressive on many other levels.

I only brought up the AI since I thought people mentioned being one of its strengths so was a little surprised it didn't seem better, granted back in the day it probably seemed totally fine and people couldn't dissect it to pieces.  Just was expecting it to be a little tougher but that is OK, this was more of a purchase to see what I missed versus any serious long term play.

[ArizonaTank]

...The fact social media didn't exist was actually a plus in my mind as didn't see countless negative stuff or nit picking, simply enjoyed it for what it was....

+1

In some ways, I actually liked the simplistic (compared to more sophisticated games these days) AI in many SSI titles. Basically the AI advanced with everything, and fought full-bore trying to take the objectives. Or, if on defense, it would establish a line and just hold on to it no matter what. But the AI still would react to enemy action, trying not to get flanked etc. But in simplistic ways.

BTW, it wasn't just SSI. Combat Mission version 1 games (CMx1) all had similar AI; not very sophisticated, but capable of keeping the fun level up. CMx1 did not have the scripted AI in CMx2 (although you still can play games unscripted in CMx2 and scripted scenarios are better IMHO).

I remember being "content" with the state of the AI in those days. I decided I didn't need an opponent, just a simple sparring partner to hold the bag while I punched.

I even got to like the simple AI. I remember when HistWar was being developed, the dev was attempting to have the AI do some real thinking about how to utilize the terrain before each battle. But the dev only got half there. The HistWar AI would analyze the map, develop a decent plan at the beginning of the battle, but then stick to it, no matter what happened on the battlefield during the game. I remember thinking that HistWar would have been a better game, if the dev had just stuck to SSI's simplistic formula. 

[Toonces]

That's a great first post, Mouser!

I'm not at my computer right now, but I'm looking forward to getting into GNB.  I played a lot of one of them a long time ago.  And Fighting Steel.  Wish that would come back, too.

Re: Koger- he did the Jutland game, right?  I sure wish that didn't have that ridiculous DRM, it looked like a great game that was killed by that stupid, ridiculous DRM.

[ArizonaTank]

That's a great first post, Mouser!

I'm not at my computer right now, but I'm looking forward to getting into GNB.  I played a lot of one of them a long time ago.  And Fighting Steel.  Wish that would come back, too.

Re: Koger- he did the Jutland game, right?  I sure wish that didn't have that ridiculous DRM, it looked like a great game that was killed by that stupid, ridiculous DRM.

I would love to see Fighting Steel come back as well.

Yes, Koger did Jutland and "Distant Guns," a Russo-Japanese War game as well. They were good games, except for the DRM as you pointed out. IMHO, the DRM was toxic and stupid. That was the brainchild of Jim Rose at the head of Storm Eagle Studios...Rose could also be described as toxic IMHO.

[Toonces]

That's it: Distant Guns.  What a squandered opportunity, that looked like a gem of a game.

[solops]

Jutland and Distant Guns - two of the biggest disappointments I can remember. Good naval games and space 4x games are auto-buys for me. I got the first one they released - Jutland? - and played the heck out of it with great joy until they retro-fitted it with the unacceptable DRM in preparation for the release of the second game. Never played it again. So, so sad and aggravating. And Norm Koger had been the BEST of the hard core wargame makers. His name alone was enough for me up until then. All because of the DRM...