DCS Discussion

[Jarhead0331]

Razbam situation still not resolved. It looks like their Mirage 2000 (which I own) suffers from quite a bit of bitrot, breaking more and more from ungoing changes in the base game. And not being updated by Razbam.

The F-4 is cool. Hope Heatblur doesn't ever have a fallout like that with ED.

Otherwise I would have to restrict my flightsimming to Flightgear :)

Yeah...and I have to tell you, I saw a post from Razbam again placing all the blame on ED. They had the nerve to complain that ED is still selling the M2000c, even though it is broken and does not fly as it should. That is a really bizarre position to take considering that it is a 7-year old module, released in 2017. There is no excuse for it not being complete and fully functional.

[mikeck]

Razbam situation still not resolved. It looks like their Mirage 2000 (which I own) suffers from quite a bit of bitrot, breaking more and more from ungoing changes in the base game. And not being updated by Razbam.

The F-4 is cool. Hope Heatblur doesn't ever have a fallout like that with ED.

Otherwise I would have to restrict my flightsimming to Flightgear :)

I think there have been 2-3 large patches  since the Razbam thing but very little of either involve game play mechanics vs fixes for little bugs and such.

I I flew the mirage ifor 2 hours tonight on the Contention server and it seemed fine to me. Still has the most accurate radar modeling in the game and the best fox-1 around. I play a lot of DCS MP on various servers and I've not heard any complaints about it not working due to missing patches. Of course, that doesn't mean it isn't...just that I've not heard of - or experienced- issues.

The Razbam thing will get resolved for no other reason than there is way too much money involved for both parties and neither benefits from losing the other.

Edit: Jarhead, in reference to your last, the M2K was fully functional and complete. In fact, it is widely regarded now as one of- if not the-  most polished module in the game. Razbam has a motive for claiming it isn't functional without them so I find their claim a bit suspect. But you and I both know both sides probably own part of the turd; I doubt either is truly an innocent victim. I think it was just a case of a lot more money became involved than originally envisioned and each wants more of it

[mikeck]

On another note: if you haven't purchased and flown the F-4, you are missing a great module. The new system where every part of the plane effects the others in real time (so some system going down effects other systems as it would in real life) is new but with slot of potential for immersion. The cockpit is gorgeous even in VR, there are already tons of weapon systems available. It's early access but feels quite polished already; like the F-14.

But man, I had gotten used to flying the F/A-18, F-16, mirage2k with their modern fly by wire systems, insta-death smart bombs and deadly missles. Even the F-14 was a killer in the hands of someone who knew how to use it...

But the phantom with its hydraulic flight controls, big loud Smokey engines, old ass radar with various green dots and lines that have to be interpreted, fire control systems requiring you wait 4 seconds for data to get to the missle, and missles that can be dodged with a tight turn or timely flare...it makes flying and fighting so much more fun.

Now...in the F-4...you have to WORK for it. You have to know how to fly it and do it very well. You have to know the weapons parameters and follow them. YOU have to make things go boom instead of telling a computer "this one" and then pressing a button to make it die.

It is a blast trying to learn how to fight this thing and the fight themselves are a lot more challenging and fun with these old systems.

I can see the phantom replacing the F/a—18 as the new Flagship module very easily.

[Jarhead0331]

Edit: Jarhead, in reference to your last, the M2K was fully functional and complete. In fact, it is widely regarded now as one of- if not the-  most polished module in the game. Razbam has a motive for claiming it isn't functional without them so I find their claim a bit suspect. But you and I both know both sides probably own part of the turd; I doubt either is truly an innocent victim. I think it was just a case of a lot more money became involved than originally envisioned and each wants more of it

This is a direct quote from today from a guy with Razbam:



So if even Razbam is claiming its broken, and its their module, I'm inclined to believe them...as stupid as it is for them to even take this position because any issues are entirely on them.

[mikeck]

Yup. I searched and found some commentary on the "breaking modules" by guys like Enigma who are pretty straight shooters. Apparently it's stuff like the g-limiter not functioning or something. Like I said, I can only go by my experience and I haven't noticed any issues as it's only been 2 patch cycles.

BUT...clearly it's an issue as -whether things are broken or not now - it will get bad at some point.

I don't know much detail about the points of contention but I agree with you that stuff like that from Razbam doesn't help them. I also wonder about why no other 3rd party developers aren't having these issues with ED.

Dont know...right now I'm flying the F-4, Gazelle and Hind so I'm good. But man, modules people paid a lot of money for breaking through neglect isn't going to be good for either party; especially Razbam.

They will get it sorted b/c there is too much money in it not to. But how much damage is done before that

[Redwolf]

Razbam situation still not resolved. It looks like their Mirage 2000 (which I own) suffers from quite a bit of bitrot, breaking more and more from ungoing changes in the base game. And not being updated by Razbam.

The F-4 is cool. Hope Heatblur doesn't ever have a fallout like that with ED.

Otherwise I would have to restrict my flightsimming to Flightgear :)

Yeah...and I have to tell you, I saw a post from Razbam again placing all the blame on ED. They had the nerve to complain that ED is still selling the M2000c, even though it is broken and does not fly as it should. That is a really bizarre position to take considering that it is a 7-year old module, released in 2017. There is no excuse for it not being complete and fully functional.

Well, it might be fully functional at one point in time.

The issue at hand is bitrot, that new changes in the base game require  adjustments in the module, otherwise it starts misbehaving. Nobody is doing those ongoing adjustments for RB's modules right now. There is a thread on the official forums right now (lost the link) of the first bugs creeping up. Something about G limits among them.

[Jarhead0331]

Razbam situation still not resolved. It looks like their Mirage 2000 (which I own) suffers from quite a bit of bitrot, breaking more and more from ungoing changes in the base game. And not being updated by Razbam.

The F-4 is cool. Hope Heatblur doesn't ever have a fallout like that with ED.

Otherwise I would have to restrict my flightsimming to Flightgear :)

Yeah...and I have to tell you, I saw a post from Razbam again placing all the blame on ED. They had the nerve to complain that ED is still selling the M2000c, even though it is broken and does not fly as it should. That is a really bizarre position to take considering that it is a 7-year old module, released in 2017. There is no excuse for it not being complete and fully functional.

Well, it might be fully functional at one point in time.

The issue at hand is bitrot, that new changes in the base game require  adjustments in the module, otherwise it starts misbehaving. Nobody is doing those ongoing adjustments for RB's modules right now. There is a thread on the official forums right now (lost the link) of the first bugs creeping up. Something about G limits among them.

Sorry. I don't buy that. It is a 7-year old module and the dispute between ED and Razbam is relatively new...as in over the last few months. Razbam has had years to get its house in order, unless you're telling me the M2000c broke over the last patch or two.

Regardless, someone needs to blink and resolve this. There is too much at stake. The Harrier, The Mud Hen, South Atlantic Map, etc. The lack of public information is also very frustrating.

[Jarhead0331]

I also wonder about why no other 3rd party developers aren't having these issues with ED.

Word on the street is that it has happened to Heatblur too, but apparently they reacted differently to it. Hard to sort out though since Heatblur has remained absolutely silent on the issue, other than to state that the current issue with Razbam does not effect them.

[Redwolf]

Sorry. I don't buy that. It is a 7-year old module and the dispute between ED and Razbam is relatively new...as in over the last few months. Razbam has had years to get its house in order, unless you're telling me the M2000c broke over the last patch or two.

Apparently it did. There is some info in here: https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/1d7wdx6/patch_release_june_5th/

Today's patch didn't arrive for me yet, so can't tell.

[Jarhead0331]

Sorry. I don't buy that. It is a 7-year old module and the dispute between ED and Razbam is relatively new...as in over the last few months. Razbam has had years to get its house in order, unless you're telling me the M2000c broke over the last patch or two.

Apparently it did. There is some info in here: https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/1d7wdx6/patch_release_june_5th/

Today's patch didn't arrive for me yet, so can't tell.

As fate would have it, this just uploaded about an hour ago...

[Redwolf]

I also read that some shared libraries (DLLs) in modules are digitally signed and that the certificates expire. That would break a module real good. Hopefully ED can re-sign them without source code for the module.

[Redwolf]

New patch is on Steam.

[Jarhead0331]

New patch is on Steam.

...with the Kiowa. Purchased.

[Redwolf]

New patch is on Steam.

...with the Kiowa. Purchased.

Let us know how you like it.

[Skoop]

I thought ED would have learned from the epic fail they had with the Hawk and the 3rd party dev behind that.

ED had to discontinue the hawk altogether and those who bought the module got left with nothing.  ED disclaimer was, you took your chances by buying from a 3rd party, to avoid a law suit they made the hawk buyers maintain 2 dcs installs.  One non updated install contained the hawk in its state from 2018, but who really is going to do that....douche move on ED's part and causes question in consumer confidence.  It might be 3rd party but it's still the dcs brand, and ED should refund the consumer if modules become unavailable.

The hawk incident has come up again cause some feel this is what will happen with the Razbam modules.

ED should have learned from the hawk and already have in their contract that the source code goes to ED if the 3rd party defaults on the contract so it can be maintained.

You guys are right, both sides own parts of this turd.  Razbam are drama queens and should have handled it like heatblur.  But the way ED is handling this doesn't instill consumer confidence for me either.  Some say ED should have paid Razbam and hired lawyers to take action separately.  The way they are simply stiffing Razbam for contract breach is ghetto, and calls into question to their economic solvency.  I've never been happy with that Nick guy running dcs, kind of reminds me of Chris Roberts and Star Citizen.