Warfare - upcoming movie from Alex Garland

[al_infierno]

New film from Alex Garland, co-directed by the military adviser for Civil War, Ray Mendoza, about the latter's experiences in Iraq circa 2006.

I'm always a bit iffy about these "true story" projects that heavily involve the subject matter, but this looks interesting nonetheless.

https://www.avclub.com/a24-alex-garland-warfare-trailer

[Jarhead0331]

Meh...but it does give me the urge to play some Six Days in Fallujah.

[Sir Slash]

Or Combat Mission Shock Force, maybe. Looks interesting enough to follow. Thanks for the Head's-Up al.

[Destraex]

I'd watch it. As long as it does justice to the subject matter.
But yeah. Have to be careful when the subject matter is the source. On the other hand what better source could you have? A disney writer these days? I think not. Better a potentially bias source than a disney writer... showing my bias.

[al_infierno]

Any groggies checked this out?  I've heard some mixed things -- aside from the usual crowing about "propaganda" that all pro-military/pro-LE movies get, I've seen Warfare described as "competency porn" which isn't exactly high praise.  Sicario had moments of "competency porn" but it was a great movie overall, too.

This scene popped up in my recommended feed on YouTube, and if nothing else, the movie seems to have great sound design.

EDIT -- I was on the fence, but after reading this review on Letterboxd, I'm definitely checking this out.

You see one person get shot in this film. They're shot in passing over an unneeded sledgehammer. There's no better summation of the pointlessness of the conflict in Iraq, which Warfare perfectly captures.

This is anti war. This is a horror movie. Keep seeing people say "this is a call of duty mission". Which call of duty was that? I'd be curious to see how many copies this one sold. Never noticed people lining up to play the "lay around in piss and blood with no mission to speak of" simulator. There's no dramatic score blaring behind American GI's wasting mindless enemies. No mission, no rah rah rhetoric, no tangible goal. You don't even know what the team is shooting at for the majority of the film, because they're shooting at ghosts. People looking for a balls to the wall action movie will be deeply disappointed.

Warfare manages to deliver this message, while also allowing the men who experienced this to process their trauma and tell their story. Every American war in the Middle East was wrong. Is the solution to cease depiction? Pretend it never happened? Perhaps for the terminally online, but I think the answer is PROPER depiction. Acknowledge the suffering of the innocent (who have a front row seat as their house is commandeered with the simple command "I like this house, let's take it"). When the soldiers leave the neighborhood completely obliterated at the end of the film, we're left with the family whose home has been destroyed. Before this, Garland presents one of the most poignant moments of film with the mother screaming at Poulter's Erik "why?" over and over. The answer never comes, because there was none.

When making something like this, a few other elements are important. Don't justify the war. Don't demonize Iraqis. Warfare goes as far as to show our GI's using Iraqi interpreters as fucking bait. This is "propaganda" though.... Give me a break. This is real, raw, ugly, and horrifying.

All this aside, Warfare is a technical marvel. The camera work is oppressive, as is the sound design. Garland builds tension here exceptionally well, playing out 90 minutes in real time. The film succeeds by displaying the tactical prowess of both US soldiers, and Iraqis as well. Every single actor was on the same page and incredibly convincing, showing off the precision of the Seals. Rather than portraying their foes as moronic and unskilled, they're incredibly capable as well, utilizing height and cover at pretty much every turn. 

I'll have a lot more to say in a video tomorrow, but I think this movie is incredibly important. Reading through the reviews on here, frankly seeing a lot of disingenuous misrepresentation of Garland's clear intention, and that's a damn shame.

[Jarhead0331]

I think the above is mostly bullshit. My understanding is that there is no message. No politics, no propaganda. It's totally objective. It's based entirely on memories of a single event from people who were there and its intention is only to share a slice of what some veterans went through. If anything, the only message is that war is horrible and the world would be a better place without it. Not just the wars in the Middle East. All wars.

I haven't gone out of my way to read a wide collection of reviews, but I have read some and watched a few on YouTube and nobody has described it as Call of Duty. Maybe on Reddit or in some other stupid corner of the web?

[al_infierno]

One of the top reviews for the film on Letterboxd is an essay complaining about how it's Call of Duty-esque "propaganda."  I think the review I posted was a direct response to that.  Letterboxd is a bit notorious for having really dumb highly-rated reviews for any remotely "conservative" film like Red Dawn, American Sniper, etc.

Also, I follow a number of writers and game devs on Twitter who unfortunately put a bunch of really dumb far-left leaning stuff on my algorithm from time to time, so any time a movie or game like this comes out, I always see the dumbest people on the planet complaining that something is "propaganda" because it portrays police or military protagonists, and the film isn't about how toxic and horrible they are.

[Jarhead0331]

One of the top reviews for the film on Letterboxd is an essay complaining about how it's Call of Duty-esque "propaganda."  I think the review I posted was a direct response to that.  Letterboxd is a bit notorious for having really dumb highly-rated reviews for any remotely "conservative" film like Red Dawn, American Sniper, etc.

Also, I follow a number of writers and game devs on Twitter who unfortunately put a bunch of really dumb far-left leaning stuff on my algorithm from time to time, so any time a movie or game like this comes out, I always see the dumbest people on the planet complaining that something is "propaganda" because it portrays police or military protagonists, and the film isn't about how toxic and horrible they are.

You're not about to trash talk Red Dawn, are you? One of the GREATEST films of all time!  Wolverines!!! 

American Sniper, on the other hand, was pretty "blah". The critical acclaim was a little silly. 

[al_infierno]

Hell no!  Red Dawn is one of my all-time favorites.  I grew up on that film!  But yeah, agreed about American Sniper, though the Letterboxd reviews for that film are really over-the-top anti-military stuff.  If you wanna piss yourself off a bit: https://letterboxd.com/film/american-sniper/reviews/by/activity/

EDIT - Fixed the link so it goes straight to the top-rated reviews

[Jarhead0331]

^Thanks, but the last thing I need in my life is more aggravation and anxiety. 

[JudgeDredd]

I think the above is mostly bullshit. My understanding is that there is no message. No politics, no propaganda. It's totally objective. It's based entirely on memories of a single event from people who were there and its intention is only to share a slice of what some veterans went through. If anything, the only message is that war is horrible and the world would be a better place without it. Not just the wars in the Middle East. All wars.

I haven't gone out of my way to read a wide collection of reviews, but I have read some and watched a few on YouTube and nobody has described it as Call of Duty. Maybe on Reddit or in some other stupid corner of the web?

I just watched this movie. It was excellent and disturbing both.

There was no message, no propaganda and no politics - hidden or otherwise.

It was a mission that went south. People got hurt. End of.

It was excellent. Reminded me of the game 6 Days in Fallujah for more reasons than it was set in Iraq.

Highly recommended.

[DesertFox]

I got a wild hair last night and decided last-minute to go see this.  I will say this - I was not in the military but this felt VERY realistic.  It's basically 1-1/2 hours for a sniper team on a mission in Iraq, both up and downtime.  I personally enjoyed that aspect of it - to see something close to what a military unit actually operates like (my experience is limited to movies and pushing counters around haha).  But it was also VERY brutal.  When someone gets injured, until they are evacuated they are there screaming and man... I understand that that's how it is but not necessarily something pleasant to sit through either.

I will say that the sound is amazing and it is probably worth seeing in the theater for this aspect alone.  You hear every bullet whizzing by, explosions, etc...

ETA - I would NOT recommend this movie to anyone with any type of PTSD unless it's for some type of exposure therapy...

[Jarhead0331]

I FINALLY got around to seeing this and I think my comments from post #5 in this thread were spot on.

Its a slice of war, terrible, unfathomable war, as remembered by some who experienced it. No bravado, no politics, no BS. I really appreciated some of the elements that you don't see in war movies often. I thought the movie demonstrated vapor lock very well (ie. the trauma/task overload that all men can suffer in the chaos of war) where your brain just says, "no more...I'm tapping out." And the movie did so without any judgment or ridicule. The subtlety of the shift in the movie when Team 1 lost its air cover was very well done. That is really when this mission went to $hit and you really had to be paying attention to pick up on that shift. The IED scene was palpable, as was its immediate aftermath. The final scenes were also very well done with the Bradleys coming in and wrecking things. The tactical decision to level the second stories of the houses on the block was probably the one thing that saved the lives of those men. Yet, the consequences of that decision were also shown. The Iraqi family was left with a shattered home and the blood and body parts of foreign invaders left on their living room floor.

Really good film. I'm going to watch it again as soon as i get the chance.   

[al_infierno]

I watched this tonight and find myself largely agreeing with Jarhead's comments. The quote I posted before really exaggerated how political it was. The movie doesn't focus on the Hollywood glamor of people being shot to pieces and blown apart, but it's still pretty clear their fire is effective and hitting targets. Also, the whole "no objective" thing is kind of true, in the sense that there's not a big capital-O Objective, like taking out a high value target or saving Private Ryan. But it's explained early on they're there to support a larger unit, who does accomplish their objective. It seems like purpose of their mission was to be on-hand in case the shit hit the fan and somebody needed backup.... just like the squad who comes in the third act and saves them. I get the sense that reviewer isn't a grognard.

And yeah, ultimately, it does show the consequences of the battle -- but the final shot read to me like a condemnation of the insurgents who started the fight just to kill Americans, since they're the ones who are left in all the dust and the silence to clean up the body parts and the rubble of their fight. Cutting the nose to spite the face and all that.

It was thin on characterization, but that's kind of what I expected from a movie focused on real people and authentic dialogue -- there's not gonna be a wisecracker, a psalm-spouting sniper, or Tom Hanks carrying the story. But it does help make the movie feel uniquely authentic.

Anyway, good movie, and now I wanna play some Six Days in Fallujah.

[JudgeDredd]

I really liked the fact there was little characterisation. It meant the focus was on the squad and not a few individuals...which I thinkw as the point - looking at the beginning where they're all watching the music video.

I thoroughly enjoyed it - but it was quite brutal - which was a good thing if it was going for authenticity.