Close Combat:Panthers in the Fog is Released

[GDS_Starfury]

late summer france:



the shadows are wrong.

[Bismarck]

A definite game breaker.  :P

[Sigma One]

Good eyes, gents!

[Longdan]

If the top is North those shadows could be correct for late evening in summer -
otherwise not.  If they got the sun on the wrong side which side are the Germans on?
Left or right?

[LongBlade]

We are grogs. Hear us roar.

;)

[son_of_montfort]

the sun isnt that far north that its casting southern shadows in France.
ever.

I have no clue what you all are talking about. All I know is that Marseille, one of the most southern cities (and one of the few ports facing West) is close to the same parallel as Portsmouth, NH.

According to this calculator, the Azimuth of the sun in Marseille, at noon on May 8, 1945 (just a random date) was 269.73 - almost due West. In Paris, on the same date and time, the Azimuth was 160, or almost due South-Southeast. On Omaha beach, the sun was at 153.

Even at 6 PM, in Northern France, the sun is at 270 - due West.

In late summer, the numbers are fairly similar, and even at 1800H in August, you aren't going to see the sun's azimuth in the north or northwest.

[Bismarck]

We are grogs. Hear us roar.

;)

or retch, as the case may be.

[GDS_Starfury]

A. I used to make CC maps.
B. Im an artist who knows his geography.
C. for 95% of players it would never be noticed.
D. having now spent about 50 hours playing its just one of those things that get to me.

[son_of_montfort]

So Bison, do you prefer this one or SB:WWI? I had written this one off, but CC: A Bridge Too Far was the first wargame I ever played.

[Longdan]

I do not know where S o'M got those azimuths etc.
I have watched the sun come up and go down hundreds of times
if not thousands.  And I mean watched it as it was part of my job.
Between the shortest and the longest day of the year the actual
spot where the sun appears over the trees varies quite a bit.  I do
not know the exact amount but somewhere over 90 degrees of horizon
for both the sunrise and sunset points over the course of a year
here in Edmo.  Around Mortain it would be less but not much less.  In Florida
it would not move much at all.  In the high arctic the sun doesn't set
but does go all the way around the sky in summer.  At the summer solstice
the sun here comes up considerably north of straight East and goes down
an equal distance North of straight West.  Around the equinox it comes up
more or less straight East and goes down straight West.  In summer the sun
is quite high and to the south at zenith, in winter very low and south.
23 1/2 degrees and all that you freakin climate experts.  We do not get
winter because Santa needs snow.

[son_of_montfort]

I linked the Azimuth calculator in the post.

[Longdan]

Okay... if you look at the ERSL calculator (the updated one linked in the first page) That SO'M provided
you can see the apparent path of the sun as viewed from the surface at Mortain, France
for Aug 7th the start of Operation Luttich.....sun rises apparently North of East
and sets North of West.  Just put the marker on Mortain, input the date and click on the
sunrise and sunset boxes.  The apparent path of the sun will appear on the map.
The sun of course does not actually move the earth does.

[GDS_Starfury]

dude... just STFU!
no matter what your excuse is the shadows in game are wrong.
just accept it and move on.

in more important news the hotfix patch will let you continue with current saved games.
tools are being dug up to make the vehicles look better.
and after mucking around a bit Im still going to maintain my opinion that the pathfinding is more a problem with map coding then AI.
hopefully by the middle of next week Ill have a pretty comprehensive review of PitF.

[MikeGER]

your both right  :) 
its just a question of the Magnitude of Grognardism in use  ;)

yes, at this latitude at that historic days the sun went down "roughly WNW" (290°) fitting to Longdan's local observations and extrapolation to that place and time in France   

yes, the shadows are wrong (overdone), like Star tells us.
to give the 45° shadow direction in the pic they need the sun at NW (315°) and a good portion over the horizon, but visual sunset position is only 295°.  at that day

also, even on 21 June (summer solstice, the longest day) they sunset is not further North than 309°, so exactly this shadow-pic will never set in...   

i wish the AI were as close to reality as the artist's impression shadows

btw: did anyboy witnessed the AI use the transport feature at least once?
(for the overnext patch: starting with 'infantry loaded' in setup in some situations, would  maybe help the AI 'to generate' at least the expression they would use it, riding to a covered position, which atm the AI would just march the unit, unload, and then march (move / sneak)  the rest to the calculated destination...) 

[Longdan]

Thank you Mike.
STFU is soooo classy.