Endless Space - what say ye

[PanzersEast]

Endless Space is now Free to Play this weekend on Steam and %50 off..... give it a go and see what you think.


PE

[sandman2575]

man, it's like this game is just taunting me to buy it --

any veteran impressions on the newly patched version?  looks like a list of significant changes --

[PanzersEast]

man, it's like this game is just taunting me to buy it --

any veteran impressions on the newly patched version?  looks like a list of significant changes --

Have not had a chance to play it yet.... maybe will get to take a peek tonight.

PE

[Huw the Poo]

I will be playing the latest version for several hours tomorrow and possibly this evening as well.  I will report back.

[Huw the Poo]

Got 30-odd turns in this evening.  Only had one skirmish with a scout so far, so I can't comment much on the update.  Here's the current state of the map:



I'm the blues in the top-left; we're Sophons, chosen mainly because they have the coolest-looking ships. :)

My immediate neighbour, the yellows, are the Cravers!  No chance of diplomatic relations there, and the only way around them is via a wormhole to the east of Centaurus, which we can't use because we don't yet have wormhole technology.  Therefore I'm going to need to firm up my military a lot sooner than I'd hoped.  I intend to use the Sophons' tech advantage to quickly diversify my weaponry and go in all guns blazing - perhaps I'll overwhelm the buggers before they get going.

As usual, I went for the infinite supermarkets tech very early, to counteract the expansion approval penalties; with two level 3/4 heroes and two fleets on the go, I needed to do something to allow me to keep tax rates up and ensure some dust was rolling in!

The good news is that the other two empires I've met, another Sophon empire and the Sowers, have taken a liking to me.  I have open borders agreements with both, and the other Sophons are now friendly with the Sowers right behind.  If I can persuade at least one of them to attack the Cravers when I do, things will be a lot easier.  Of course, once the Cravers are dealt with I'll almost certainly stab my allies in the back. :D

So far I'm enjoying it.  The slickness of the UI really cannot be overstated.  It's amazing.  Tooltips are everywhere, and so much information is conveyed on each screen without resorting to walls of text.  The battle screen that pops up now has the option of not having a timer (why the hell was that even there in the first place?), allowing you to analyse the enemy fleet composition at your leisure.

I intend to play a good few hours tomorrow, and I'll update my report when I do.  Anyone even remotely interested should at least play the free weekend, which is on now.

[Huw the Poo]

The Cravers kept hanging around my system Cheng.  I didn't like it.  So:



And then:



That is what is commonly known as an arse-kicking.  We declared war on each other shortly after that.  Then, as a happy result of researching more ship hulls, we discovered the "Casimir Effect" which allowed wormhole travel.

(I really like that about Endless Space.  Some people say that the tech tree is crap or doesn't make sense, and I couldn't disagree more.  Techs are perfectly natural.  In researching better hull materials or shielding, say, you will also be able to colonise new types of world.  It makes sense.  If your ships are better protected, it becomes more feasible to colonise lava worlds, for example.)

Cutting a long story short, after going through the wormhole we discovered a couple more empires which seemed well established, and despite some small skirmishes (it was all a misunderstanding) we've established peace for now.

I'm happy to report that my initial plan is working.  We've raced through the military branch of the tech tree and, after a lucky find of some rare resources, are now building laser boats.  The Cravers' ships pack a lot of punch but they're concentrating on missile technology and have no shields.  Therefore my latest laser boat design has lots of flak protection and is bristling with lasers.  We're campaigning in Craver space at the moment and cutting through their fleets like a hot knife through butter.  I have a new hero - a combat expert - who I immediately assigned as an admiral to one of my main task forces, and together with two other fleets they really have the Cravers on the back foot now.  We've even captured two of their systems.

Frustratingly, I still have not had multiple battles at one location, so I can't yet comment on whether battle stacking now works the way I want it to.  However, now that you can pause the battle timer, you don't have to just fight as soon as two fleets collide.  In fact you can even minimise the pre-battle screen and do whatever else you like until you're ready to fight.  I can confirm that includes moving other fleets into the system.  Much better!

---

I feel the same way I did playing Fallen Enchantress after the horrible mess that was War of Magic.  Endless Space is now much better than it was, and I really only have one gripe remaining, namely that enemy fleets haven't necessarily finished moving when you begin your turn.  If they'd just change that, this game would be close to perfect.  As things stand, I'll have to settle for "extremely good".  I haven't finished a game yet so I reserve final judgement, but I'm very optimistic right now and really enjoying playing.

I've been taking screenshots as I play; if you want to see any more just check them out on my Steam profile.

[sandman2575]

Great write-up, Huw --

So, 'close to perfect' is a pretty strong endorsement !

Any thoughts about the combat system?  I know the hands-off style bugs a lot of people.  What do you like about it?

[Huw the Poo]

The combat system takes some getting used to.  Let me begin by saying it's a lot better than some other TBS games by default, since some don't allow any input in combat at all.  The central premise is the cards system; you choose a card to play in each of the three combat phases (long, medium and short range).  So during long range, where missiles are most effective, you'll probably want to play a card that boosts missile damage.  However your opponent is also doing the same, and cards can counter each other.  So if your opponent counters your card, you'll receive a penalty rather than a bonus.

It took me a long time to like this system.  For a while I thought it was too close to rock paper scissors.  However I now believe (although I haven't actually crunched the numbers) that the cards aren't really a deciding factor; they can maximise damage or minimise losses, but ultimately it's what you bring to the fight that decides it.

For example, referring back to my current game, those Craver ships that didn't have any shields (laser protection) were just getting torn apart by my lasers, even when my cards were being countered.

The other thing I like about the battles is that they're exciting.  You watch the two fleets warp in as an ominous, military/futuristic tune kicks in, and then watch them slug it out while frantically deciding which cards to play.  It's all over in under two minutes each time.  I just think it really adds spice to the game and gets the blood pumping.  They've now also implemented a free camera for the battles (the default is a cinematic camera which I prefer).

I'll just reiterate that I haven't played a full game yet so I'm reserving final judgement, but I'm having a blast at the moment.  The tech tree is great (with really well-written flavour text), the economic systems are just the right depth, graphics are pretty and the interface is bloody superb.

And it's free to play at the moment on Steam!

[sandman2575]

It took me a long time to like this system.  For a while I thought it was too close to rock paper scissors.  However I now believe (although I haven't actually crunched the numbers) that the cards aren't really a deciding factor; they can maximise damage or minimise losses, but ultimately it's what you bring to the fight that decides it.

Bring to the fight in terms of both fleet makeup and ship design, I take it?  Have you spent much time designing ships?  Do the player's custom designs have a real impact on combat results, or does it seem more like 'flavor'?  Guess I'm just wondering how deep design is in comparison, to say, SOTS or Star Ruler --

You make a good case for the combat system.  It sounds like if the player had just a little more input into how the combat plays out, it would be great.  I like hands-off 'just issue orders and let it play out' in theory, but there is something about boiling down combat to playing cards that seems a little disappointing.  playing cards would be fine if you could also have a little control over tactics, like how to position and deploy your fleets ...

[Huw the Poo]

Bring to the fight in terms of both fleet makeup and ship design, I take it?

Yeah, that's right.

Have you spent much time designing ships?

I have, which is unusual for me as I normally prefer to use pre-made ships in games like this.  There's a lot to consider.  As you research new techs, you get more powerful versions of modules you already have, and you also get new support modules - things like hull plating which increases hitpoints, long-range sensors etc.  When designing a ship you need to choose a hull, and which modules to bolt onto it.  Different hulls have different bonuses; combat hulls, for example, make it easier to fit weapon modules.  See, you have two concerns when adding modules, which are the cost (in terms of manufacturing output required and any special resources) and the weight.  So a combat hull will mean weapon modules weigh 20% less, allowing you to add more.  Once the number of modules you have gets large, you can thus spend quite some time in the ship editor choosing just the right design for whatever you expect your ships to encounter.  It's similar to Space Empires in that regard.

Do the player's custom designs have a real impact on combat results, or does it seem more like 'flavor'?  Guess I'm just wondering how deep design is in comparison, to say, SOTS or Star Ruler --

A massive impact.  When choosing modules, you're striking a balance between damage types, damage outputs, protection, maximum hitpoints, and in the case of support modules, much more than that.  The cards you play in battles have an impact (and you can research new cards) but a ship that's weak against missiles will fall apart if you pelt it with missiles, no matter what cards your opponent plays.  Like I said, in my above example the Cravers were sometimes "winning" the card battles but still being torn to shreds simply because they couldn't counter my lasers.

It's been some time since i last played Star Ruler and I can't remember enough to compare.  I suspect Star Ruler is a bit deeper, but there's still plenty to consider in Endless Space.

You make a good case for the combat system.  It sounds like if the player had just a little more input into how the combat plays out, it would be great.  I like hands-off 'just issue orders and let it play out' in theory, but there is something about boiling down combat to playing cards that seems a little disappointing.  playing cards would be fine if you could also have a little control over tactics, like how to position and deploy your fleets ...

The combat isn't perfect.  Personally I could have done without the cards system altogether - I don't particularly like it, I've simply grown to "not mind" it.  I suspect the reason it was designed was to make sure battles were always snappy and never took more than two minutes to play out.  Also, allowing for free movement and tactics can result in some bizarre AI behaviour, usually (in my experience and opinion) resulting in you figuring out ways to cheese your way through battles you ought to lose.

[eyebiter]

Was surprised the combat was real time, and there was no option to pause to select a combat card.

[sandman2575]

Thanks for all the details, Huw.  You sold me.  Amplitude Studios owes you a commission.

[Huw the Poo]

Thanks for all the details, Huw.  You sold me.  Amplitude Studios owes you a commission.

Heh, you're welcome and I hope you enjoy it now!

[PanzersEast]

I wish we could merge SoTS II and Endless Space.... wished ES had SoTS tech tree and customization of ships...

PE

[Huw the Poo]

I wish Space Empires 4 had Endless Space's interface and graphics!