Senator Ben Affleck?

[steve58]

Well, I'm no fan of Mr Franken, but at least we know he knows something about the USA, which can't be said for a lot of our elected officals...

ha...just noticed that that video is labeled "Al Franken draws the United State of America"  :)

[Longdan]

With the state of the planet maybe all these pols should be
comics and play it for laughs instead of being allowed to make
important decisions.  Mostest bestest laffs wins..... even though
the Republicans are at a serious disadvantage in the humour
department.  You can only take so much Bill O'Reilly before
you puke and that's just his novel.

[son_of_montfort]

I agree with Brant, I think Al Franken is fairly well educated and is able to hold a fairly intelligent debate of policy. I do not always agree with his politics, he is even a bit too left for me. But I agree with him more than I say, agree with Bison.  ;)

Al Franken is a flake.  I'd like to see some of the so called knowledge and being informed because it sure as the hell hasn't played out in legislation he's written or the committees he's sat on leading to any meaningful discussion of anything.

This could apply to so many many politicians. We had a Young-Earth Creationist on the House Committee for Science, Space, and Technology (along with Todd Akin, whose comments were wildly non-scientific). 

Regarding Scott Brown, he wasn't altogether "center-right." But it really does not matter what the nation thinks, just his constituents, and they clearly wanted someone more (way more) left.

Also, McCain and Romney failed because of the political machine. Both men espoused politics and policies that I heartily supported 8 years ago. But, because they needed to get the support of their party hardliners, they "changed their minds" and began to use the rhetoric of the farther right. I very much supported McCain during the Bush years, when he stood up against Bush on many key issues. Romney and his views on healthcare were very palatable to me. But both disavowed those beliefs during their respective campaigns. What else COULD they do? They had to out conservative people like Rick Perry. This is a failing of our system, that the minority needs to be coddled for the primaries, then the majority needs to be assuaged by immediately moderating. This is why Romney looked like such a waffler.

[Bison]

Point proven.  Thanks SoM.  Not that you intended to do so but you did.  There is no compromise to be had.  The most moderate of conservatives are never moderate enough and their supposed hypocrisy is never as acceptable as a liberal's hyprocrisy is.  The is no desire for a moderate government.  That is why we are an increasingly divided nation.  Enjoy the ride.

[Longdan]

Lots of compromise there.  I am sorry the conservatives are picked on.

[son_of_montfort]

Point proven.  Thanks SoM.  Not that you intended to do so but you did.  There is no compromise to be had.  The most moderate of conservatives are never moderate enough and their supposed hypocrisy is never as acceptable as a liberal's hyprocrisy is.  The is no desire for a moderate government.  That is why we are an increasingly divided nation.  Enjoy the ride.

Actually, I think it is more nuanced than that. Like it or not, large numbers of people in the nation do not care about or are on the liberal side of social issues such as gay marriage, women's choice, prayer in school (separation of Church and State), and even universal healthcare (of some sort). So when the liberals have their primaries, they sell the liberal rhetoric, but do not have to moderate as much when selling it to the public come election day. The Conservatives, post-Bush, have been very divided by Bush-era politics, which was socially conservative but less fiscally conservative. I believe you have a mosaic in the Republican party that mirrors the liberals of the early 2000s. You have fiscal conservatives who are socially libertarian, you have social conservatives, you have religious social conservatives, and you have a mix.

Again, like it or not, Bush consolidated the Left and pushed a lot of moderates who did not care for social conservativism toward the left.

I do find your tone interesting, however. You seem to decry the fact that the moderate conservatives are not moderate enough. Whose fault it that? If they continue to lose elections because they pander too much to a radical base, then they aren't learning anything nor being responsive to their constituents. I've repeatedly said that the conservatives need to quit this "It is our way or the nation is doomed" rhetoric and start to understand how their vision (which has some very strong aspects) can coincide with and guide the vision of the American people at large.

[LongBlade]

Good points SoM.

I'd decry that conservatives aren't libertarian enough. The numbers of evangelicals make it difficult to ignore them, but I find their lack of social tolerance a great weight dragging down the party as a whole.

[Bison]

Good points SoM.

I'd decry that conservatives aren't libertarian enough. The numbers of evangelicals make it difficult to ignore them, but I find their lack of social tolerance a great weight dragging down the party as a whole.

Why are evangelicals the only group viewed as extreme?  That's insane frankly.   I find liberal intolerance of religion and pro-life stances extreme.  However as with all things it's not a compromise in the mind of a liberal unless you abandon your core values and accept theirs. 

[LongBlade]

Why are evangelicals the only group viewed as extreme?  That's insane frankly.   I find liberal intolerance of religion and pro-life stances extreme.  However as with all things it's not a compromise in the mind of a liberal unless you abandon your core values and accept theirs.

You're correct. I didn't mean to call them the only "extreme" but rather the biggest hindrance on the GOP.

Plenty of crazies of all fabrics, not the least the libertarians (to which I more or less subscribe). I suspect that you and I share more values than we disagree on.

Sorry - gotta run. Will catch you cats later. Good discussion - here and elsewhere.

[Bison]

I'd disagree that they are a hinderance.  I would agree that they are quickly becoming the only segment in the population that it is cool to show unchecked bias against.  The offense?  Positions on abortion and gay marriage.  The left's obsession with killing babies, which is what abortion is and there is no way around it, is frankly sick IMO.  However, I'm the intolerant one.  See how that works?  Gay marriage has been voted down in states like California by overwhelming popular vote, but its those evil social conservatives are the extreme and intolerant ones.  Sorry but I don't want a party or a politican that caves on the basic premise of life.  I guess that makes me extreme, which I'm fine with but just remember soon we'll all be old and guess who gets to choose if you are a valuable asset to society or not.   

[Longdan]

The Death Panels!!!!!

[Bison]

I assume that was your attempt at a sarcastic witticism.  Needs work.

[Longdan]

Speaking from experience.  Living with socialised medicine
we have to fight off the death panels daily.

[son_of_montfort]

You can decry the change in social tone Bison, but I was not posting my "liberal opinion" but actual fact of the matter - fewer young people care about social conservativism. Sure, the Right can stick to its principles, in regards to gay marriage and women's choice, but that will lose them elections and will prevent other and very valid parts of their platforms to be ignored.

Gay marriage has been voted down in states like California by overwhelming popular vote, but its those evil social conservatives are the extreme and intolerant ones.

Just FYI, this is wrong. The margin on Proposition 8 was 504,000, or the difference of 5%. I would hardly call this a "huge majority."

But I did not label the Evangelical Right as radical or "crazy." Just that they represent a faction within the Right that pushes the rhetoric toward social conversativism that other members of the Right (i.e. the Libertarians) do not support. That is not a *bad thing* per se, but I do think it is cutting off some of the Right's support among Moderates. You have less of the factionalism in the Left (I maintain because of Bush). There was a lot more factionalism in the Left during Clinton and early Bush.

[Bison]

Please.  It lost SoM.  It lost in a very liberal leaning state.  A state that Obama carried by 21%.  So perhaps it's not as popular as you'd like to believe it is.  Let's just blame the Evangelicals and Catholics.  It's easier to process that way.