Joining the Guard at 31?

[Shelldrake]

Way to go Republic...but be sure to consider all of the advice you have been given by those with military experience.

@Gus, congrats on your decision to join the NY Guard. Let us know how it turns out...sort of a real life AAR!  :D

[Gusington]

Will do. Right now I think it will be a hurry up and wait sorta thing...JH waited forever for them to sort out his paperwork.

[Shelldrake]

Will do. Right now I think it will be a hurry up and wait sorta thing...JH waited forever for them to sort out his paperwork.

I think that is a given for any country's military if my experience from my time in 2RCA is any indication.

[Airborne Rifles]

I commissioned straight out of college.  A friend of mine from high school who was getting his master's at Harvard and ran out of money and enlisted last year and we ended up in the same battalion, him as a private and me as a company commander.  I missed having him in my company by one slot.  Might have been a little awkward.

I'd give you the same advice a gave him; the military is generally designed to deal with the lowest common denominator: a scared 18 year old private.  Someone like you coming in can easily get very frustrated with being treated like an 18 year old, but you also have a great opportunity to be an asset and a positive influence on your 'peers.'  I've only seen a couple people seize this opportunity without becoming frustrated and bitter (my high school friend falls into the frustrated bitter category).

[LongBlade]

I've only seen a couple people seize this opportunity without becoming frustrated and bitter (my high school friend falls into the frustrated bitter category).

Hey Airborne.

Lifelong civilian here. So at risk of being wholly ignorant of reality, allow me to make an observation/ask a question.

To my untutored eyes, it would appear as though a situation where a much more mature person meeting a less mature person happens all the time in the military in the form of NCOs dealing with junior officers. It's my understanding that most NCOs learn to work in this environment. Is there any way to help these more seasoned recruits deal with the situation in a similar fashion?

[besilarius]

Don't get him started on Butterbars!

[Toonces]

Longblade,
Let me give you my perspective on this.

In the Navy you commission as an Ensign.  In my case I went to flight school for two years before I reported to an operational squadron and was actually "in charge" of enlisted people.  However, I did get to work with a lot of Ensigns during my last tour on the boat, so I have an idea of how the relationship works when you're truly a brand new O-1.  Basically, unless the Ensign is a complete tool, they understand that the Chief (E-7) that runs their division "runs" their division, and their job as an Ensign is to learn how the Navy works, learn some basic leadership skills, and get qualified in their warfare area.  Part of the Chief's oath is that their mission is to train junior officers, and I believe most young officers "get it".  Still, you can pin on Chief in about 10 years in the Navy.  So if you're a 10-year Chief, you're probably 28 or 29 years old, compared to a 22-25 year-old junior officer.  The age disparity isn't that huge.

Even as a Lieutenant I was still fairly intimidated by Chiefs, and especially Master Chiefs (E-9).  By the time you've been in a few years and sort of seen how it all works, you understand that a Master Chief is by definition pretty salty and you're not his peer, even if technically you out rank him.  In fact, I'd say that it's only in the last few years that I've started to feel comfortable directing a Master Chief. 

Now, I'm going to contrast that with Gusington going into the Army as an E-1 Private.  Like Rifles said, the military is going to gear things for the E-1 to the lowest common denominator, the scared 18 year-old.  When I was 18 I was sweeping and swabbing floors at McDonald's, flipping burgers, and doing that sort of stuff.  Well, it's the same in the military.  I'm generalizing here, but it wouldn't surprise me if Gus shows up to his first drill and they do a "field day" and clean some area.  If you're 18 and you're out picking up trash or swabbing out the head, hey that's how it goes.  But I'm trying to imagine 38 year-old, college educated family man Gus showing up and Jarhead is telling Gus to round up those 4 other E-1s and head out to the PT field and pick up all the trash, and then grab some mobs and swab out the company heads.  Gus is going to be like, "WTF?  This is what I signed up for?"  Yes, yes it is.

Which is a long way of explaining why, again, I think there is a shelf life to these kinds of dreams.  It is very admirable for anyone to continue to pursue their dreams, but at the same time, I do think it's reasonable to do a reality check to see if, really, it's still feasible. 

I hope that makes sense.

[LongBlade]

Thanks, Toonces. It makes perfect sense. Which is why my buddy waived me off at 9/11. I was in my early 30s and, naturally, interested in serving my country.

He made it pretty clear that despite my "transferable skills" I'd still not be given much of a bone. In retrospect he was right, though he never put it in as stark terms as you did.

Really, it's too bad. There are a lot of transferable skills that experienced civilians could bring to the military. <shrug> It's their party.

[Toonces]

I'm pretty sure that if Gusington has Jarhead mentoring him, he's not going to do anything he shouldn't do.   

[Jarhead0331]

I'm pretty sure that if Gusington has Jarhead mentoring him, he's not going to do anything he shouldn't do.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.  I'll definitely take Gus under my wing, but he is still going to have to clean the head at Camp Smith and Latham.

[Jarhead0331]

Even as a Lieutenant I was still fairly intimidated by Chiefs, and especially Master Chiefs (E-9).  By the time you've been in a few years and sort of seen how it all works, you understand that a Master Chief is by definition pretty salty and you're not his peer, even if technically you out rank him.  In fact, I'd say that it's only in the last few years that I've started to feel comfortable directing a Master Chief. 

Shoot. My Brigade had an SRP this past weekend and I was still nervous talking to the CSM. I think it will always be like that, more or less. That being said, I like having senior enlisted around. They really keep me squared away and on my toes.

[bayonetbrant]

and I was still nervous talking to the CSM. I think it will always be like that, more or less. 

I dunno - in part it depends on the CSM.  Not long after I got off of active duty, and got to my first Guard unit, our CSM took the staff out for steaks and beer on the Sunday at the end of the drill weekend.  Seeing the CSM rip-snockered drunk and wailing on bad karaoke did a lot to dispel the aura.

The CSM I had in my first active duty unit was not intimidating, he was just an asshole.  He was not one who believed in shared hardship with his troops and that really got my goat.  Worse, it set the tone for his fellow senior enlisted who dodged a lot of shared hardships with their soldiers and led to a pretty bad climate among the enlisted guys for a while.

That being said, I like having senior enlisted around. They really keep me squared away and on my toes.

Can't possibly agree more.  Isn't that why we keep LTG Smuck around?

[Jarhead0331]

That being said, I like having senior enlisted around. They really keep me squared away and on my toes.

Can't possibly agree more.  Isn't that why we keep LTG Smuck around?

Well, it sure as hell isn't for his good looks and charm.

[Gusington]

JH has already been helpful in the application process, paperwork, writing a recommendation letter and warning about long wait times.

If at some future point I get called to serve during a Hurricane Sandy type situation, I will be glad to clean up the PT field first. I've already done similar work like this for my friends who lost everything. It will be an honor for me to do it in a more official capacity.

[Airborne Rifles]

LB, I agree with everything Toonces said.  Something that helps with officer/NCO relationship is how it is defined.  Yes, the young 2LT is less mature and less experienced, but a good platoon sergeant or first sergeant understands that it's his role to develop his officer to the point where the officer can really be in charge.  The officer is expected to lead eventually whereas the private is expected to do what he's told.  Most officers understand the relationship going in as well and that even though they're 'in charge' it's in their best interests to heed the advice of their NCO. 

There has been a lot of writing recently about how the military hemorages talent because it fails to leverage its individuals and instead treats everyone like the lowest common denominator, even among officers.  There's a lot of truth to that.  The problem in a bottom-heavy organization like the Army is that as a leader you can only devote so much time to developing your subordinates and you can only juggle so many balls to make sure they are in the job that makes them happy, particularly with our up or out system where advancements are on a pretty strict timeline (more for officers than enlisted).  In the case of my friend, he enlisted as an infantryman and then got selected to act as his company's intelligence specialist (a job at which he's very good) because of his obvious intelligence and education.  Unfortunaltely, that doesn't change the fact that he's still a private and the NCOs treat him like a private.  It's kind of a feedback system; he get's treated like a private and eventually he develops a bad attitude, which he demonstrates and then gets treated worse for his bad attitude, thereby worsening his attitude.  Sometimes a young NCO can feel intimidated by an older more mature soldier and ride him simply to assert his dominance.