News from Ukraine Conflict

[Staggerwing]

Also, I wonder if anyone in Chechnya might be interested in Stinger SAMs that are GPS-locked to only operate in Russian airspace...  >:(

Fuck.  No.

We learned after the Mooj in Afghanistan that the enemy of my enemy might turn into my enemy at some point too.  Chechnya is a kleptocratic gangster state that's run by career criminals who figured out the world will view them more sympathetically if they claim 'religious oppression'.

We don't need to try to fight any more guerrilla proxy wars, because they all spiral sideways out of control at the end and come back and bite you in the ass.

Oh, I know better. I am just very pissed off and I was channeling my inner MikeGER...  8)

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

It's chipper time! Reduce, Recycle, Repatriate.

[LongBlade]

God help the wicked if Mike and I are ever world leaders.

No kidding. 

Where is a whiskey-drinking, depression-addled, visionary like Churchill when you need him?

[GDS_Starfury]

I would be using that 747 with the ABM laser for anti personnel missions.

just for style points.   

[MikeGER]

Oh, I know better. I am just very pissed off and I was channeling my inner MikeGER...  8)

as much as i 'hate' the Dutch  on the soccerfield in a final  ;)  ...as much i love all of them outside the stadium  :)

you cant kill hundreds of my neighbours and walk away with: 'ok no more Edamer for you pal' as a result of coming weeks of political back and for EU-meetings talks.

the Donez separatists had to get removed, while Putin has to watch from his side of the border and just suck it up. That is the political price he has to pay.
It is his political fault, to let them operate weapons they are not fit to use in a responsible way.
if you cant tell the difference between Antonov military transport and a commercial airliner on your radar stay away from the firing button and when there is doubt just let it pass, its just an old hauler not a nuke-baring bomber on route to your capital...

[pawelj]

Putin and his band of terrorists should be slapped down hard. And that should include Crimea.

[bayonetbrant]

holy shit
http://news.yahoo.com/woman-loses-relatives-2-malaysia-air-disasters-102012283.html

[Staggerwing]

That's just horrible!  :(

It looks like the Eastern Separatists have spirited away the plane's recorders from the crash site before investigators got there. Any bets as to whether the seals will still be intact if those devices are ever turned over?

[Staggerwing]

Also, I heard on the car radio that there are radio intercepts that allegedly show Separatists radioing Russian Military contacts and telling them that the former have shot down a plane, and then saying it turned out to be a commercial aircraft indicating this was not their initial intent, thinking the craft was Ukrainian when firing on it.

Can't link these as I'm just walking into work and on my phone.

[Centurion40]

Also, I heard on the car radio that there are radio intercepts that allegedly show Separatists radioing Russian Military contacts and telling them that the former have shot down a plane, and then saying it turned out to be a commercial aircraft indicating this was not their initial intent, thinking the craft was Ukrainian when firing on it.

Can't link these as I'm just walking into work and on my phone.

Yeah, saw the transcript on CNN this morning.  They also interviewed the Ukrainian Foreign Minister.  He said that the rebels did not get a Buk system (although he never named the anti-air system) from Ukraine, and that Ukrainian forces do not have the system in range of where the plane was shot down.  He said that system is not something that one can buy on the black market, that Russians must be involved.

CNN reported that the pro-Russian separatists are saying that the Ukrainians thought that the plane was Putin's, and that they shot it down.  Apparently Putin is blaming Ukraine for the tragedy, basically saying that if Ukraine didn't fight to keep its territory, none of this would have happened.  ::)

[Gusington]

This is the definition of clusterfuck.

[MikeGER]

basically saying that if Ukraine didn't fight to keep its territory, none of this would have happened.  ::)

that like the traffic accident laws in Saudi Arabia when a stranger is involved. the stranger is always guilty because if he had not visited the country, the car -accident would not have happend.  ::)

i don't think the flight recorder will reveal much... it will be normal sounds , then a crack, (disintegration of airplane, were flightrecorder in the back get separated from the cockpit and most of the sensors that are not inside) with a little luck 'impact of shrapnel'-sounds got recorded just a split-second before disintegration... its a 90kg warhead, a fragile plane (it does not have to pull any g's) and moving at its cruisespeed...

I doubt the recorders will answer the question who fired that rocket.
how do you discriminate if the rocket was fired 2 klicks inside or already outside of the Ukraine border (out of Russia), and by Separatists, or regular Russians, or Russian military adviser dressed in ragtags to assist the Separatists...
How big is the probability that the Separatist had a former airdefence operators crew in their men-pool, which were trained on that model in the past, when they did there service-time in the Ukrainian military?       
       

[LongBlade]

That's just horrible!  :(

It looks like the Eastern Separatists have spirited away the plane's recorders from the crash site before investigators got there. Any bets as to whether the seals will still be intact if those devices are ever turned over?

Russia will inspect them and determine they were destroyed on impact. They'll never see the light of day. Not in this century.

[Windigo]

they won't have anything to contribute to what is all ready known...

Maybe a tragic cockpit voice recording, "Ho-ree phruk!"

[Yskonyn]

I think the CVR will contain pretty shocking audio. If the video shown on the news of the burning aircraft going down for feet after feet is real, the people on board must have had terrifying last minutes of their lives and the crew will probably be frantically trying to troubleshoot the problem if they have never seen the rocket coming.
All of a sudden a loud bang, structural damage and Fire.
This is Assuming the pressure hull was still intact.

Perhaps its better if it was breached and people ran out of oxygen before dying otherwise.

189 Dutch confirmed. Me and my wife are still waiting on confirmation of colleagues of us being on board. .