News from Ukraine Conflict

[LongBlade]

I have to ask, is there a historical precedent for pressing your opponent by denying food to your own people? I mean really, did they come up with that in a drunken stupor? I realize it is supposed to show will. Will for what though? Treating your own people like shit?

Alesia and Vercingetorix.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Interesting, never knew of that siege before.

Same as above though, it is a siege of a stronghold. What Russia is doing is blocking food for their whole country. You would think before trying that they would grow replacement food first. Even the hermit kingdom wants food brought in.

[BanzaiCat]

Was that the double-siege where the Romans had fortifications facing the town and without facing the Gaul relief attacks?

I have a game somewhere of that one. An older title I think called "Caesar at Alesia."

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1430/caesar-alesia

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich called the new sanctions "an absolutely unfriendly step".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29154488



The more I think about it the more I think Puta is doomed. He is failing to break the will of Ukraine, in fact he is driving it closer to the EU. He cannot break NATO economically or militarily. NATO can break Russia economically if pushed. The failure is just a matter of time. 

[Kushan]

The failure is just a matter of time. 

I agree. Although Putin strikes me as the type who would nuke the planet from his death bed.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I find parallels with the 2nd Punic War.
http://www.amazon.com/Comparing-Strategies-2nd-Punic-War-ebook/dp/B00FG9BT0U/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1410482033&sr=1-3&keywords=2nd+punic+war

Even if he wins on the field of battle he will lose strategically.

[LongBlade]

Was that the double-siege where the Romans had fortifications facing the town and without facing the Gaul relief attacks?

I have a game somewhere of that one. An older title I think called "Caesar at Alesia."

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1430/caesar-alesia

Yes. I'll elaborate in a reply to Biggs.

[LongBlade]

Interesting, never knew of that siege before.

Same as above though, it is a siege of a stronghold. What Russia is doing is blocking food for their whole country. You would think before trying that they would grow replacement food first. Even the hermit kingdom wants food brought in.

It's actually slightly more involved.

Vercingetorex was surrounded. He had help coming (hence the (in?)famous double-siege. He didn't have enough food to feed all his troops plus the villagers he was sheltering with at the top of the hill. So he kicked the villagers out and sent them toward Roman lines, figuring the Romans would care for them.

Not quite realizing how business minded the Romans were, the villagers were denied shelter with the Romans. The Romans knew that time was ticking, and therefore sent the villagers back, figuring that it would either accelerate the starvation of the Gauls, or lower their morale as the Gaulic civies starved in front of them.

So I believe this siege qualifies as somewhat equivalent to what Biggs asked for: a case where the Gauls attempted to pressure the Romans by starving their own.

As for growing their own food, there wasn't time. This wasn't a years-long siege. Ultimately Caesar found a weakness in the Gauls' fortifications near a creek. Using signal mirrors to coordinate troops around the hill, he stormed it and took it.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Ok, that's useful. I'll ask a couple more questions. Is there an example of shutting the borders to food when the market has determined importing food is economically useful? Maybe Berlin/ East Germany?

In your example did it work? Who came out ahead by letting the civilians starve? (since both sides tried it)

In the current case Russia is probably not trying to starve their citizens, just denying what they see as luxuries. Is it? Once you get well stocked grocery stores, will the people go back to Soviet bare shelves? What is the morale/political fallout likely to be?

[LongBlade]

In your example did it work? Who came out ahead by letting the civilians starve? (since both sides tried it)

Caesar won. His troops found a weakness in one of the walls around a creek and exploited it.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

http://blogs.reuters.com/john-lloyd/2014/08/28/russian-realism-is-winning-now-but-will-fail-in-the-end/

If you look at the image of gollum in the article, what is the red mark across the left palm?

[Staggerwing]

http://blogs.reuters.com/john-lloyd/2014/08/28/russian-realism-is-winning-now-but-will-fail-in-the-end/

If you look at the image of gollum in the article, what is the red mark across the left palm?

I can think of at least one rude comment right away.

[GDS_Starfury]

he holds it to tight.

[Centurion40]

http://blogs.reuters.com/john-lloyd/2014/08/28/russian-realism-is-winning-now-but-will-fail-in-the-end/

If you look at the image of gollum in the article, what is the red mark across the left palm?

Maybe the scar from an Illuminati/mafia/etc. initiation?

[LongBlade]

Shockwaves reverberated through Eastern Europe tonight after Vladimir Putin boasted he could invade five NATO capitals inside two days.

This came amid new reports that almost 4,000 Russia troops are massing in Crimea close to Ukraine's mainland.

'If I wanted, Russian troops could not only be in Kiev in two days, but in Riga, Vilnius, Tallinn, Warsaw or Bucharest, too,' Putin was quoted as threatening, according to Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko.

source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2761195/Moscow-troops-five-NATO-capitals-two-days-boasts-Putin-Leader-boasted-Ukrainian-president-Russian-power.html