xmass sorted 'world in flames' onsale now! superb its what makes Matrix good

[Rayfer]

cost of development would as you say have a limit, I was thinking out loud about getting the programmer out of the fire with a quick escape A.I. I know the game has a lot to think on, but I learned my most valuable lesson over a long time, think in the most simple amswers to programing nightmares :) but Im no expert on pro development either :(

Your enthusiastic optimism is a breath of fresh air. This game has been pretty much ripped to shreds in these forums. I don't own it so I can't comment one way or the other. But with other games I am somewht like you gameleaper; I try to keep an open mind and enjoy it for what it is rather than hate it for what it isn't.  Thanks for sharing your upbeat attitude with old farts like me.

[gameleaper]

Hey Im not upbeat, its the games are good :) I cant explain it I just love these sorts of games, and old hex&chit boardwargames , I kinda old I used my first computer in 1980 when I was 15 few mainframe terminals they were star trek then for sure

[gameleaper]

When I watch the training videos and then open the program and fully grasp the details of the boardgame that are programmed in to this PC adaptation, I'm amazed at what I see as well.  There's must be a *lot* of lines of code just to have the thing do what it currently does.  So from a programmer's perspective (of which I am very much an amature), I too am impressed by what I see.

That said, with all of that of which they have done, it is still an unfinished product.  I get game freezes and crashes and some times I get stuck in a screen where I know that it is wanting my input but for the life of me I can't find anything to click on in order to continue and I simply have to kill the process to exit the game.  I'm sure that has something to do with me using duel displays because I don't have that issue when I keep all the windows on one screen.  I digress however; I do hope that work will continue on this but from what I can tell it's basically a one man show doing all of that programming with streams of requests/bug fix issues coming at him from the playtesters.  What they have here now is the shell of what could be one huge wargaming accomplishment some day (far away, in a time long long ago....)

it reminds me of Lock N Load game that took years after I saw it on matrix until I could actually buy it, but I'm glad they did manage to release it. the recent patch would have to be tested before I would accept the game isn't ready a patch can fix a lot, but I still am ready for it still being buggy, but I have to admit, no A.I. is ok if the enforced rules work(I will have to play for sometime to know), I would love it transferred to other games of this complexity too , like ASL would be great with enforced rules instead of vassal.

[GJK]

I disagree about the PC version of ASL.  People have talked about how that would be *the* definitive tactical game on the computer to have ASL with an AI and rules enforcement.  I think that it would be a bore personally.  What makes ASL ASL is the interaction when playing against others.  ASL is just one of those games that gives you priceless moments when that last battle for an objective hex comes down a pair of rolls in close combat (for example).  Against a computer?  Meh.  Case in point is Conflict of Heroes.  It's a fun little game when played on the tabletop but the PC game is a big yawn. Not to mention the task of coding all of that in to a computer game in the first place.  You could probably do it with the Starter Kits but not full blown ASL.  And you know that all of the ASL grog's would be hyper-critical of every mistaken rules interpretation that was miscoded. 

[jomni]

Well for ASL and WIF, there so many rules that only a human mind can grasp and not easy to code. :P the rules weren't intended to be processed by machine but instead written for human minds to debate, interpret  and take advantage of.

[GJK]

Exactly!  Half the fun of ASL is arguing over the rules while actually trying to look the rule up!

[gameleaper]

I tell you I think differently, I had a hard time learning ASL from the big Folder on my own, I only play solo(I know ASL plays better multi,because of the reactive fireing choices eg: distract an enemy so the spend there defensive shots and move past with your other units, but I found a way round that) , so the learning of ASL for me was hard to do but I got there. I have long wished I could play WiF, but I was not ready to try to learn on my own again yet anyway, Now I just popped on the training videos to WiF and then fire up the game WiF and the enforced rules together with the videos I was playing with hardly any effort. Now maybe after playing the computer I will know about the actual boardgame and play that, I absolutely love WiF PC version solo and I would of probably took a long time to without the enforced rules.

I know what your saying but you already know how to play ASL, as a noobie to WiF the enforced rules mean I can play, if I was a noobie to ASL and had the chance of enforced rules I would of loved it. I have to say though it would have to be quality like WiF computer version, with its hyperlinked buttons etc...

I still quiver when I get the boards to ASL out and charge an MG nest, Ive just had the same feeling with Aircraft bombing raids in WiF PC game

when I say enforced rules that means no A.I. I don't know if you mean play CoH hotseat or A.I. enforced rules is a lot easier that creating an A.I. for ASL your plaing a brain either yourself of a PBEM but your prevented from doing an illeagle action.

[Grimnirsson]

And you know that all of the ASL grog's would be hyper-critical of every mistaken rules interpretation that was miscoded.

Of course Pope Perry had to give his nihil obstat first before even thinking of letting the grogs check it out  ;)

[GJK]

And you know that all of the ASL grog's would be hyper-critical of every mistaken rules interpretation that was miscoded.

Of course Pope Perry had to give his nihil obstat first before even thinking of letting the grogs check it out  ;)

Oh that's right....I had almost forgotten.  You'll have to let me know how that's going and how that went. 

[GJK]

@ gameleaper:  I think that the tool to learn complex games such as WiF and ASL is a good one to have; don't get me wrong.  And I think that it's apparent that you love to stimulate your brain - you love to write programming code and you play some of the most complex games out there, and I think that you must simply enjoy the learning process in and of itself.  So you're having fun using MWiF to learn the game because it stimulates you.  That's great!  I actually will keep attempting the same because I'd love to learn how to play WiF.  My point is there is a lot missing in the actual game play by playing against a non-a.i PC (or hell, even one with an a.i. as I suggested above).  That doesn't make it a bad thing though.  I wonder though if once you've mastered the games mechanics/rules, how excited will you be to play solo vs a non-a.i.?

[gameleaper]

@ gameleaper:  I think that the tool to learn complex games such as WiF and ASL is a good one to have; don't get me wrong.  And I think that it's apparent that you love to stimulate your brain - you love to write programming code and you play some of the most complex games out there, and I think that you must simply enjoy the learning process in and of itself.  So you're having fun using MWiF to learn the game because it stimulates you.  That's great!  I actually will keep attempting the same because I'd love to learn how to play WiF.  My point is there is a lot missing in the actual game play by playing against a non-a.i PC (or hell, even one with an a.i. as I suggested above).  That doesn't make it a bad thing though.  I wonder though if once you've mastered the games mechanics/rules, how excited will you be to play solo vs a non-a.i.?

I have the gift of placing myself on both sides in my head so I enjoy solo, Id rather play a Good A.I. If I learned the game I would enjoy it solo if it had that spark of lightning, which WiF does so does ASL, I like takeing my time having a coffee , looking at the map, I can take a long time playing a game. I still play ASL solo, but I enjoy Lock N loads game much more because of ASL, Lock n Load is great fun, CoH tried to be a computer game not a boardgame, but WiF wants to be a boardgame on a computer its what makes it special. the vassal WiF does not have enforced rules and I didn't enjoy the experience. GJK as I remember a while back you have one of the best game train of thought of anyone Ive met, you seen things in my games no one else did and btw I put in Opportunity fire in wartactical because of you so thanks. I think we both enjoy the hobby :)

[JudgeDredd]

I've watched half the tutorial videos and I still don't know how to play it.

I don't think the videos are to blame there (though the voice over is a bit of a drone) - I just don't think I can keep the details in my head.

I don't know how many times I've started up Barbarossa only to be thwarted with the interface.

As I said - I love the style of the game and the mechanics sound interesting (scrapping, lend lease, oil etc, etc, etc) and all the various impulses - the game really intrigues me...but it is a mess currently (though infinitely better than it was on release).

[gameleaper]

I've watched half the tutorial videos and I still don't know how to play it.

I don't think the videos are to blame there (though the voice over is a bit of a drone) - I just don't think I can keep the details in my head.

I don't know how many times I've started up Barbarossa only to be thwarted with the interface.

As I said - I love the style of the game and the mechanics sound interesting (scrapping, lend lease, oil etc, etc, etc) and all the various impulses - the game really intrigues me...but it is a mess currently (though infinitely better than it was on release).

I like watching videos on the game im into better than TV, I watch over and over, its so easy to learn like this.

[magnus]

 The Matrix sale includes the physical manuals for the $69?

[gameleaper]

yes you can choose , manuals or not same price