Panther Games Command Ops 2 Limited Time Offer Bundle Pack Coming Soon

[Pinetree]

Thanks, and no worries. :) The maps usually only take a me a night or so each to do so the wait for the bulge maps shouldn't be too long. I'll most likely do the HTTR maps after that then move on to Greece and the Med.

[panzerde]

For those who are waiting a bit due to the reported issues, most notably the lag: apparently Panther's intent with this release is that is is a public beta. That wasn't communicated clearly on the LnL website, but it is now, I guess. Depending on your feelings about participating in a public beta, you might want to wait. On the up side, you can get the game and some scenarios for free, so you aren't out any cash if you do go in to the beta. Panther appear to be listening to feedback and working to correct issues, which is good.

I had no idea it was a public beta and I'm not sure it's a really great idea to have a deal for content pricing that may be expired before the product comes out of beta. I don't regret buying the Commander's Pack at all (hell, I regret buy Elite:Dangerous and To End All Wars a lot more than I would ever regret this!). I do hope that LnL and Panther get better at communicating with each other about stuff like this, though.

Relevant thread from LnL forums: http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/show-stoppers.1283/

[sandman2575]

For those who are waiting a bit due to the reported issues, most notably the lag: apparently Panther's intent with this release is that is is a public beta.

WTF??

Here's the thread on upcoming release from David Heath.  You won't find the words "public beta" mentioned anywhere in this discussion:

http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/when-to-expect-command-ops-2.1197/

"I wanted to update you on the release of Command Ops 2. I know Dave been taking a lot of hits with this question so its only fair that I update you.
Monday March 16, 2015 Command Ops 2 will be available for downloading and purchase."

Umm, LnL needs to be way more up front with its customers if this was intended as a 'public beta'. I haven't yet bought the game and frankly, am definitely considering crossing this off my 'probable purchases' list after this...

[Grim.Reaper]

dave did  mention in a number of threads it would be a beta release...I even posted a blurb a number of posts ago something he posted.

With that said, I do think official communication hasnt been great on pricing, downloads, whether core engine free forever, and could have been more clear on the beta store at the start.

Rough start with the new company, expect with time it will get better

[WYBaugh]

Asked Dave:

William Baugh said:
Dave,

Coming from other forums, you have a number of people who have bought the complete package not knowing this is a public beta. There are also rumors running rampant on pricing.

I really think it would be good to have you or David officially state clearly how pricing will work moving out of public beta to the 2.0 release and beyond. Are we looking at paying $50 for a public beta to then have to pay another amount for the release version?

Not at all. If you have paid for the Commander Pack 1 then it is yours. We will be releasing new minor builds for the Core Engine on a on going basis as we develop and refine the engine. These will all be free. Your Commander pack will work with these. If for any reason we need to do a conversion of the data then it will be done free of charge.

Having said that, if we put out a new core update with new features, as opposed to a new minor build with fixes, then you will have the option to pay for an update to your data. It's not compulsory. You can choose to stick with the existing core engine. That's the model we proposed months ago and it's still the model we are working on today.

I appreciate the need for clarity on this and I have drafted a pricing policy statement and emailed this to LNL for their comment. I will post this on the main page of the forum once I have this back, hopefully tomorrow.

[smittyohio]

That sounds a whole lot like the pricing model David Heath said they were not doing.   As I suspected, it's probably all in the wording.    It sounds like Battlefront's scheme on steroids.  Maintaining, or possibly letting wither on the vine, multiple versions of an engine and data packs.

[vyshka]

For those who are waiting a bit due to the reported issues, most notably the lag: apparently Panther's intent with this release is that is is a public beta. That wasn't communicated clearly on the LnL website, but it is now, I guess. Depending on your feelings about participating in a public beta, you might want to wait. On the up side, you can get the game and some scenarios for free, so you aren't out any cash if you do go in to the beta. Panther appear to be listening to feedback and working to correct issues, which is good.

I had no idea it was a public beta and I'm not sure it's a really great idea to have a deal for content pricing that may be expired before the product comes out of beta. I don't regret buying the Commander's Pack at all (hell, I regret buy Elite:Dangerous and To End All Wars a lot more than I would ever regret this!). I do hope that LnL and Panther get better at communicating with each other about stuff like this, though.

Relevant thread from LnL forums: http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/show-stoppers.1283/

Does the clock on the bundle price start ticking once it is released, or now with the beta?

[jomni]

Bought the bundle . No brainer for me despite not playing this series a lot.

[panzerde]

The bundle pricing is going on right now, and is supposed to be for 90 days.

I think it's important to note that I really see absolutely no malice or any attempt to be dishonest in this by LnL or Panther. I think there's been some miscommunication due to LnL under Heath being a new company in general and very new to doing computer games (though David Heath obviously has done this before) and Panther trying to get a new game out through a new publisher. LnL doesn't have the staff that Matrix/Slitherine does and Panther is a small operation too. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't do everything in their power to get it right. I'm willing to cut them a break though, since they seem to be doing all they can - both of these guys are living on the LnL forums right now and are very responsive.

It's a good game and these guys have shown good faith in their past dealings. I'm sure they're going to fix the bugs, and I'd be surprised if LnL didn't do the right thing on the bundle pricing if necessary. My only intent in the post above was to inform people about something that was news to me, as someone that hadn't spent much time on the LnL forums before the game was released.

[-budd-]

here's a link to the pricing policy for CO posted by Dave. It's pretty much what he has said for awhile.
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/co2-pricing-policy.1295/

I have no worries that what ever problems there are now will be worked out. Even if you never buy another CO2 product the current bundle pricing for what you get is a great value. Judging by the how Panther has supported their products in the past and how Mr. Heath was very customer oriented when he ran Matrix games the commander pack is a no brainer.

[Rizik6]

Hopefully, I'm misreading the pricing policy, but it seems as if the 5 pack bundle I purchased last night could, in a worst case scenario, cost me up to $150.00 per year to keep updated.

- 1 or 2 fee level updates of the core a year.
- Fee will be up to 50% of original price for each scenario pack. (It's possible they mean one fee will update all of your packs, no matter how many you own)
- The separate original price of the scenario-data packs is $30.00 to $35.00 a piece.

I'm sure it would never come to this amount, but even at a lesser amount it could become a real money pit, unless you choose not to update. In addition, each scenario pack purchased in the future increases the burden.

I'm hoping I've got policy wrong and someone will set this straight.

[jomni]

Wait a minute. Did I just read "paid upgrades for the scenario packs if necessary" and "public beta"? Should have read this thread more carefully.

[Grim.Reaper]

here's a link to the pricing policy for CO posted by Dave. It's pretty much what he has said for awhile.
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/co2-pricing-policy.1295/

I have no worries that what ever problems there are now will be worked out. Even if you never buy another CO2 product the current bundle pricing for what you get is a great value. Judging by the how Panther has supported their products in the past and how Mr. Heath was very customer oriented when he ran Matrix games the commander pack is a no brainer.

I think if you never previously bought anything related to command ops before now, it absolutely is tremendous value.  If you are a previous owner and have already bought the content multiple times it is questionable value that only the purchaser can decide if worth it, especially since not a ton of differences in 2.0 (some might say new ui not as good as first).

At the end of the day it will be each person's choice whether they want keep purchasing further updates and whichever they choose is perfectly acceptable.  For me it will come down to what kind of changes are in core updates, hopefully will add decent amount of changes.  As for frequency based on history, can't imagine them getting out core updates more than one a year, if that.

Anyway, each persons choice and will be interesting to see how things turn out.....

[JudgeDredd]

Well, I definitely got a great deal here regardless of what the pricing structure is going forward. There's an awful lot of game for £40 here

But in case I want "more" later, I'll just post this in case anyone "official" comes in and answers anything...

So an upgrade to the engine comes out. If I wanted those new features, I'd have to upgrade the engine (free from what I gather) and then update each of the (modules at a reduced cost?)

However, a more likely scenario for me is this.

A new engine comes out and I'm not bothered about the updates. However, it's been released with a Vietnam module or a 6 Years War module or Yom Kippur module or a Falklands module...all of which I would love. So in this scenario I buy the new engine (for free?) and buy the Yom Kippur module. Do I have to upgrade my other scenario packs? I would presume so because the core engine is changed. If I do have to but don't bother, is that them useless or can I continue using my old modules on the new engine?

If the latter is the case, this essentially means once your in, you are drowning. You would either lose the ability to use your older modules or you simply don't buy any new modules and core engine upgrade.

If it's the former - then cool. I can upgrade the engine, buy the new modules I want with all the new functionality AND keep playing my older modules. I can see how this would work. It's not a lot different to working with the DLL system. You can add functionality to a DLL so that a new program can access key components whilst also taking advantage of new functionality within the DLL file.

That's how I hope it would work anyway

[JudgeDredd]

here's a link to the pricing policy for CO posted by Dave. It's pretty much what he has said for awhile.
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/co2-pricing-policy.1295/

I have no worries that what ever problems there are now will be worked out. Even if you never buy another CO2 product the current bundle pricing for what you get is a great value. Judging by the how Panther has supported their products in the past and how Mr. Heath was very customer oriented when he ran Matrix games the commander pack is a no brainer.

I think if you never previously bought anything related to command ops before now, it absolutely is tremendous value.  If you are a previous owner and have already bought the content multiple times it is questionable value that only the purchaser can decide if worth it, especially since not a ton of differences in 2.0 (some might say new ui not as good as first).

At the end of the day it will be each person's choice whether they want keep purchasing further updates and whichever they choose is perfectly acceptable.  For me it will come down to what kind of changes are in core updates, hopefully will add decent amount of changes.  s for frequency based on history, can't imagine them getting out core updates more than one a year, if that.

Anyway, each persons choice and will be interesting to see how things turn out.....

My bold - this. I cannot imagine more than one update a year. However, it does depend how your older modules work if you do upgrade the engine for a new module. If they don't work, you are "in for a penny, in for a pound" if the new module (and therefore core engine) is what you really really want.