CM: Black Sea Strategy Discussion Thread

[Boggit]

The smoke looks really nice for all CM games though.

Including that ugly black smoke?

LOL! ;D Well, that's relative I suppose. It looks better than the vanilla in my opinion. The black smoke is a bit weird, but I suppose you could be burning oil with it... ;) Anyway, if you haven't tried it, check it out - you can get it at Battlefront's repository - Smoke and Dust mod by Aris. You need to stick it in the \Data\Z folder to get it to work - here is a youTube clip that shows it quite nicely (I also use Aris' fire, and explosion mod too, which go well with it)....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBO-i9JeGqY  (BTW the fire mod is improved over the one seen in the video, and is much better).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIB7_2k4IL4 Smoke and dust looks like it's from the Aris mod
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NESJbph_Puc Some smoke and dust - but mainly an entertaining one...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXP_DzX540s  This illustrates it nicely, plus is visually very immersive.

[panzerde]

Are you guys talking about the black smoke from the smoke launchers on Soviet-era AFVs?

[Boggit]

Are you guys talking about the black smoke from the smoke launchers on Soviet-era AFVs?

I was - if you mean the stuff that the Syrians get in CMSF, and the stuff in CMBS. I guess Jomni was too, but he'll confirm yea or nea. Any particular reason why you ask?

[panzerde]

I was - if you mean the stuff that the Syrians get in CMSF, and the stuff in CMBS. I guess Jomni was too, but he'll confirm yea or nea. Any particular reason why you ask?

I just never thought of it as particularly "ugly." AFAIK it's at least accurate for the smoke launchers on those vehicles. I *think* the newer Russian vehicles use a smoke more like what NATO uses now.

I completely agree with you on the Smoke & Dust mod, btw. A definite must have.

I'd actually like to see more smoke in the game, especially from burning buildings. I was looking at some pictures from Kursk the other day and I want my games to look like that!

[Boggit]

I was - if you mean the stuff that the Syrians get in CMSF, and the stuff in CMBS. I guess Jomni was too, but he'll confirm yea or nea. Any particular reason why you ask?

I just never thought of it as particularly "ugly." AFAIK it's at least accurate for the smoke launchers on those vehicles. I *think* the newer Russian vehicles use a smoke more like what NATO uses now.

I completely agree with you on the Smoke & Dust mod, btw. A definite must have.

I'd actually like to see more smoke in the game, especially from burning buildings. I was looking at some pictures from Kursk the other day and I want my games to look like that!

Personally, I never gave much thought to the black smoke. I just thought it was white for blue force, and black for red - which is why I thought it a bit weird, but heigh-ho that's what it is. I hadn't realised that it was actually an expression of reality. I feel much happier about it now. Thanks for the heads up. O0

Yep, I definitely agree with you with fire and smoke. I guess if we ever see it it'll be in a v4 or 5 upgrade. :'( Fire works well in Steel Panthers - including spread. I don't see on the face of it why it couldn't happen in CM. I suspect that calculating casualties by fire/smoke inhalation might be a bit tricky, but not impossible.

[panzerde]

The really "ugly" smoke IMHO is that brown thermal opaque smoke you see in CMSF. NATO IFVs tend to dump it and it is ugly stuff!

[RyanE]

The 1.03 patch was released last night.  Fixes a bunch of things, but not much beyond that.  BFC stated this is the last being done on CMBS for a while, so enjoy.

[jomni]

Does it mess up ongoing PBEM?

[undercovergeek]

i think as long as youre both on the same version it should be ok

[jomni]

Will you be updating?

[Elvis]

The 1.03 patch was released last night.  Fixes a bunch of things, but not much beyond that.  BFC stated this is the last being done on CMBS for a while, so enjoy.

Here's the list:

INFANTRY WEAPONS:

Makarov pistol ammunition is now listed as "9mm".
RPG-7 rounds now self-detonate at a distance of 920 meters.
The dismounted AT-14 Kornet can now be fired from inside buildings, albeit with a suppression penalty.
The M25 CDTE is now better at estimating range, allowing it to more accurately airburst rounds over walls.
Under barrel rifle grenade launcher (M320, GP-25, GP-30) grenadiers are now better at "dialing in" the range to target, allowing them to fire more accurately adjust range after firing successive grenades at the target.
FIXED: Incorrect muzzle flash for SVD and PSR rifles.
FIXED: Problems with max detection range of some US Army infantry thermal weapon sights.
FIXED: Javelin missile would appear a meter to the right of the tube when the launcher was facing a specific cardinal direction.
FIXED: Tripod-mounted M240L machineguns had to pause firing every 50 rounds, as opposed to every 200 rounds.
VEHICLE WEAPONS:

Previously overly restricted BM Oplot AAMG should now be able to fire over most of the frontal arc of the vehicle.
BMP-2M and BTR-82A now use the same modernized 30mm APFSDS ammunition as the BMP-3M.
US now uses only HEDP grenades for Mk.19 grenade launcher. HE grenades have been removed.
Russian 12.7mm ammo is now AP-I, instead of AP.
Vehicle airburst rounds are now better at estimating range, allowing them to more accurately airburst rounds over walls.
FIXED: Humvee-mounted US Army .50 caliber machineguns were using Mk. 211 ammunition instead of AP-I.
FIXED: T-72 rotating cupola with attached AAMG failing to rotate and use the MG.
FIXED: Rare issue that could cause ATGMs from a vehicle to consistently swerve off course.
FIXED: Vehicles firing a direct trajectory gun (such as APFSDS ammo) at the same elevation as the target were occasionally hitting the target's top armor or hull deck.
VEHICLE PROTECTION:

All T-90 variants have increased hull side protection.
All T-90 variants have slightly increased front hull armor protection.
BM Oplot lower front hull armor protection was slightly reduced.
The T-90AM now simulates 10 main gun rounds being protected in a turret bustle with blow out panels. In effect this will make the T-90AM somewhat less prone than the T-90A and T-72 to catastrophic explosions after being penetrated.
The single layer of Abrams turret side ERA (M32 scutum ERA tiles) is now less effective against tandem HEAT warheads.
Duplet ERA on BM Oplot tanks is now more effective against tandem HEAT warheads.
FIXED: ERA on a few vehicles occasionally not functioning properly.
FIXED: Some rare issues with T-72B3, T-90AM, and BM Oplot armor protection.
FIXED: Occasional issue where a tank's frontal hit location would be reported incorrectly.
FIXED: Issues with smoke grenade launchers for some Russian vehicles, causing them to form insufficient smoke screens to their front.
FIXED: Shtora deploying smoke grenades twice in a row.
FIRE SUPPORT:

The flight path of Air-to-Surface Missiles (ASMs) such as the Hellfire now have a steeper attack angle, removing their vulnerability to active protection systems and making them less likely to hit terrain obstacles.
Krasnopol precision artillery round accuracy has been slightly increased, while Excalibur accuracy has been slightly reduced.
Electronic Warfare settings of Medium or higher will no longer prevent laser-guided precision artillery missions from happening. These missions will continue to suffer the usual delivery time penalties due to communications interference.
AAA fire (such as the cannon fire from Tunguskas) can now be seen in the sky by the enemy when they are fired at aircraft. This matches the current behavior of SAMs.
UNIT BEHAVIOR:

Troops will now "Cower" less readily after being shot at if they are in a low suppression state.
Small arms fire and ricochets from friendly units will no longer cause units using the Hunt command to stop moving.
Units are better at targeting the exposed portions of a hulldown vehicle.
Units with handheld AT weapons are more willing to attack APS-equipped vehicles on their own without needing an explicit Target command.
IFVs (such as BMPs or Bradleys) are now better at choosing the optimal weapon system for engaging enemy IFVs. In most cases this means that they will favor immediate use of autocannons over ATGMs.
FIXED: Vehicles with a dismounting vehicle commander (such as a BMP's squad leader who also doubles as a vehicle commander) not getting the proper benefit of having a trained crew commander when the leader was in the vehicle.
FIXED: Passengers in the bed of a M1152 Humvee not recognized as valid small arms targets.
FIXED: Infantry on the move that had their next waypoint adjusted would sometimes turn around and run back to the last waypoint before continuing with their orders.
QUICK BATTLES:

All vehicles equipped with Active Protection Systems (APS) now also cost Rarity points in Quick Battles, which under normal settings will further limit the amount that can be purchased.
A variety of IFVs and APCs with advanced sensor and defensive systems now cost more points in relation to older vehicles with less sophisticated equipment (such as thermals and night vision).
Russian vehicles equipped with APS now cost less points in Quick Battles, bringing the cost of APS in line with equivalent US Army systems.
T-90AM now costs more points in Quick Battles relative to the T-90A.
Most infantry units now cost less points in Quick Battles.
FIXED: Attacker Electronic Warfare setting in Quick Battles would apply to both sides.
ARTWORK:

US Soldiers now visually carry their pistols in thigh drop holsters.
Russian and Ukrainian rifle grenadiers equipped with GP-25 and GP-30 grenade launchers now use a unique hand grip animation.
More vehicles and weapons have normal maps.
Numerous tweaks to vehicle 3D models.
Russian night vision goggles are now worn over the left eye.
FIXED: Some black textures: gear stowed in back of UAZ 469 appearing as black, M1152 steering wheel, Igla-S missile, and occasionally Ukrainian tanker helmets.
FIXED: Some buildings in a small number of maps had an invisible second floor.
MISC:

Removed laser designator from Russian recon squads.
Amphibious capability for a vehicle is now noted with text in the Vehicle Info Panel.
Micro UAVs will no longer make a large explosion when they crash.
BM Oplot tank is now equipped with TIUS-NM navigation support system.
FIXED: Various crashes.
FIXED: Elevation changes improperly calculated in some maps under specific circumstances.
FIXED: A variety of bugs caused by vehicles moving onto or under bridges.
FIXED: An independent house had a couple windows that could not be seen through.

[undercovergeek]

The 1.03 patch was released last night.  Fixes a bunch of things, but not much beyond that.  BFC stated this is the last being done on CMBS for a while, so enjoy.

Here's the list:

INFANTRY WEAPONS:

Makarov pistol ammunition is now listed as "9mm".
RPG-7 rounds now self-detonate at a distance of 920 meters.
The dismounted AT-14 Kornet can now be fired from inside buildings, albeit with a suppression penalty.
The M25 CDTE is now better at estimating range, allowing it to more accurately airburst rounds over walls.
Under barrel rifle grenade launcher (M320, GP-25, GP-30) grenadiers are now better at "dialing in" the range to target, allowing them to fire more accurately adjust range after firing successive grenades at the target.
FIXED: Incorrect muzzle flash for SVD and PSR rifles.
FIXED: Problems with max detection range of some US Army infantry thermal weapon sights.
FIXED: Javelin missile would appear a meter to the right of the tube when the launcher was facing a specific cardinal direction.
FIXED: Tripod-mounted M240L machineguns had to pause firing every 50 rounds, as opposed to every 200 rounds.
VEHICLE WEAPONS:

Previously overly restricted BM Oplot AAMG should now be able to fire over most of the frontal arc of the vehicle.
BMP-2M and BTR-82A now use the same modernized 30mm APFSDS ammunition as the BMP-3M.
US now uses only HEDP grenades for Mk.19 grenade launcher. HE grenades have been removed.
Russian 12.7mm ammo is now AP-I, instead of AP.
Vehicle airburst rounds are now better at estimating range, allowing them to more accurately airburst rounds over walls.
FIXED: Humvee-mounted US Army .50 caliber machineguns were using Mk. 211 ammunition instead of AP-I.
FIXED: T-72 rotating cupola with attached AAMG failing to rotate and use the MG.
FIXED: Rare issue that could cause ATGMs from a vehicle to consistently swerve off course.
FIXED: Vehicles firing a direct trajectory gun (such as APFSDS ammo) at the same elevation as the target were occasionally hitting the target's top armor or hull deck.
VEHICLE PROTECTION:

All T-90 variants have increased hull side protection.
All T-90 variants have slightly increased front hull armor protection.
BM Oplot lower front hull armor protection was slightly reduced.
The T-90AM now simulates 10 main gun rounds being protected in a turret bustle with blow out panels. In effect this will make the T-90AM somewhat less prone than the T-90A and T-72 to catastrophic explosions after being penetrated.
The single layer of Abrams turret side ERA (M32 scutum ERA tiles) is now less effective against tandem HEAT warheads.
Duplet ERA on BM Oplot tanks is now more effective against tandem HEAT warheads.
FIXED: ERA on a few vehicles occasionally not functioning properly.
FIXED: Some rare issues with T-72B3, T-90AM, and BM Oplot armor protection.
FIXED: Occasional issue where a tank's frontal hit location would be reported incorrectly.
FIXED: Issues with smoke grenade launchers for some Russian vehicles, causing them to form insufficient smoke screens to their front.
FIXED: Shtora deploying smoke grenades twice in a row.
FIRE SUPPORT:

The flight path of Air-to-Surface Missiles (ASMs) such as the Hellfire now have a steeper attack angle, removing their vulnerability to active protection systems and making them less likely to hit terrain obstacles.
Krasnopol precision artillery round accuracy has been slightly increased, while Excalibur accuracy has been slightly reduced.
Electronic Warfare settings of Medium or higher will no longer prevent laser-guided precision artillery missions from happening. These missions will continue to suffer the usual delivery time penalties due to communications interference.
AAA fire (such as the cannon fire from Tunguskas) can now be seen in the sky by the enemy when they are fired at aircraft. This matches the current behavior of SAMs.
UNIT BEHAVIOR:

Troops will now "Cower" less readily after being shot at if they are in a low suppression state.
Small arms fire and ricochets from friendly units will no longer cause units using the Hunt command to stop moving.
Units are better at targeting the exposed portions of a hulldown vehicle.
Units with handheld AT weapons are more willing to attack APS-equipped vehicles on their own without needing an explicit Target command.
IFVs (such as BMPs or Bradleys) are now better at choosing the optimal weapon system for engaging enemy IFVs. In most cases this means that they will favor immediate use of autocannons over ATGMs.
FIXED: Vehicles with a dismounting vehicle commander (such as a BMP's squad leader who also doubles as a vehicle commander) not getting the proper benefit of having a trained crew commander when the leader was in the vehicle.
FIXED: Passengers in the bed of a M1152 Humvee not recognized as valid small arms targets.
FIXED: Infantry on the move that had their next waypoint adjusted would sometimes turn around and run back to the last waypoint before continuing with their orders.
QUICK BATTLES:

All vehicles equipped with Active Protection Systems (APS) now also cost Rarity points in Quick Battles, which under normal settings will further limit the amount that can be purchased.
A variety of IFVs and APCs with advanced sensor and defensive systems now cost more points in relation to older vehicles with less sophisticated equipment (such as thermals and night vision).
Russian vehicles equipped with APS now cost less points in Quick Battles, bringing the cost of APS in line with equivalent US Army systems.
T-90AM now costs more points in Quick Battles relative to the T-90A.
Most infantry units now cost less points in Quick Battles.
FIXED: Attacker Electronic Warfare setting in Quick Battles would apply to both sides.
ARTWORK:

US Soldiers now visually carry their pistols in thigh drop holsters.
Russian and Ukrainian rifle grenadiers equipped with GP-25 and GP-30 grenade launchers now use a unique hand grip animation.
More vehicles and weapons have normal maps.
Numerous tweaks to vehicle 3D models.
Russian night vision goggles are now worn over the left eye.
FIXED: Some black textures: gear stowed in back of UAZ 469 appearing as black, M1152 steering wheel, Igla-S missile, and occasionally Ukrainian tanker helmets.
FIXED: Some buildings in a small number of maps had an invisible second floor.
MISC:

Removed laser designator from Russian recon squads.
Amphibious capability for a vehicle is now noted with text in the Vehicle Info Panel.
Micro UAVs will no longer make a large explosion when they crash.
BM Oplot tank is now equipped with TIUS-NM navigation support system.
FIXED: Various crashes.
FIXED: Elevation changes improperly calculated in some maps under specific circumstances.
FIXED: A variety of bugs caused by vehicles moving onto or under bridges.
FIXED: An independent house had a couple windows that could not be seen through.

Do you mind if I check with JD and con? I'm personally in no rush

Unless I can make 2 exes one upgraded one not

[Con]

I can up-grade but I have another PBEM game going as well so I need to check with that person also

Thanks
Con

[undercovergeek]

Let's make this the meeting place to decide I'm happy either way as long as you an jomni are

[JudgeDredd]

I'm not fussed. If you want to upgrade, I will do so. If you want to hold off - I will do so.  :)