CM: Black Sea Strategy Discussion Thread

[RyanE]

Large scale rocket artillery was not left out for balance.  It was left out because it is out of scale of the game, in general.  It would be like having tac nukes in the game.  CM is about tactical units fighting it out.  Its not an air warfare game or artillery duel game.  Artillery plays a supporting role.  If its about covering a sq km in HE, you probably want a different game that is more grand tactical or operational.

Similar to even discussing SEAD.  The way a granular tactical game handles SEAD is by limiting AA assets or limiting air attacks.  The assumption is that fight happens at another level and the CM battlefield only sees the results.

[fabius]

Large scale rocket artillery was not left out for balance.  It was left out because it is out of scale of the game, in general.  It would be like having tac nukes in the game.  CM is about tactical units fighting it out.  Its not an air warfare game or artillery duel game.  Artillery plays a supporting role.  If its about covering a sq km in HE, you probably want a different game that is more grand tactical or operational.

Similar to even discussing SEAD.  The way a granular tactical game handles SEAD is by limiting AA assets or limiting air attacks.  The assumption is that fight happens at another level and the CM battlefield only sees the results.

Yes, partially agree, but sort of semantic nit pickin'. In a stream Chris ND said it was balance as, like you say it could take out the whole side of the map. He also said that they will consider it again in future. That said, there are assets available that are similar level of, and I would not be surprised if they sneak in in some restricted form, for example singular precision missiles shot from MLRS. 

Edited: back on topic- I'm liking the game, but dislike how modern IFVs pretty much nullify infantry with their super spotting ability. I think that after the stock campaigns I'll get the most mileage out of Black Sea from Infantry QBs.

[Cyrano]

Fabius -- Re: IFV spotting, do you believe it is unrealistically modeled or that, though accurate, it makes for a less enjoyable experience?

Curious as I'm having some, erm, conundrums along these lines in my PBEM with Doug.

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

[panzerde]

Fabius -- Re: IFV spotting, do you believe it is unrealistically modeled or that, though accurate, it makes for a less enjoyable experience?

Curious as I'm having some, erm, conundrums along these lines in my PBEM with Doug.

We're just being vewy, vewy quiet.

Also, we have no jeeps.

[fabius]

Fabius -- Re: IFV spotting, do you believe it is unrealistically modeled or that, though accurate, it makes for a less enjoyable experience?

Curious as I'm having some, erm, conundrums along these lines in my PBEM with Doug.

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

Bit of both. There's so many situations that stuff would get in the way, but with vehicles only you still have to get real close to still infantry in cover and building is more difficult.

Still, once they are spotted HE or rapid fire auto cannons is good night squishies. For US side this is balance by Javelin

My bias: I generally prefer infantry V infantry anyway.

BS is fun, and I've just scratched the surface. And for some reason, am actually enjoying playing as Russian and Ukrainian rather than US more so that I would with other games.

[Skoop]

I get What you guys are saying about feature creep, got to draw the line some where and let Wargame ALB, CMNAO, or DCS tackle those areas.

But Still, the apache was designed for this kind of tactical CAS in high threat environment.  You shouldn't even hear it on map.  In RL, it would be 2 or three maps away doing pop up attacks with hellfires guided buy jtac laser designators.  I feel like the BS aircraft are just RT aircraft with modern weapons and sensors.

[Boggit]

Large scale rocket artillery was not left out for balance.  It was left out because it is out of scale of the game, in general.  It would be like having tac nukes in the game.  CM is about tactical units fighting it out.  Its not an air warfare game or artillery duel game.  Artillery plays a supporting role.  If its about covering a sq km in HE, you probably want a different game that is more grand tactical or operational.

Similar to even discussing SEAD.  The way a granular tactical game handles SEAD is by limiting AA assets or limiting air attacks.  The assumption is that fight happens at another level and the CM battlefield only sees the results.

And yet MRLS rocket artillery featured in Red Thunder, and is commonplace in the current Ukraine conflict.

[RyanE]

And I don't think its needed in RT.  There is no point in having it.  One of the first house rules you see in CMRT is no rocket arty.

[RyanE]

Just ran a short test on a 1km by 1 km map.  On the Soviet side: a single FO team anf three rocket batteries.  On the German side, 12 scout teams of 3 soldiers apiece. 

During set up, I called in the rockets with maximum area and no overlap in bombardment areas.  I was able to cover almost the top third of the map with the areas.

During turn 1, almost half the map was covered by the bombardment.  At the end of the strike, 12 German soldiers were unwounded and the rest were dead or wounded.  the 12 left were all rattled, panicked or broken.

Caveats...no trees, buildings, or trenches.  But it shows only a few rocket units can almost blanket half of a normal-sized map.  Rockets were not used like this anyway.  They were typically used on support units and facilities slightly behind the lines.  They would be the reason reinforcements don't show up and ammo runs low.

[WallysWorld]

BF forum post regarding the upcoming CMBS 1.03 patch: http://community.battlefront.com/topic/119209-black-sea-patch-v103-preview/

[jomni]

Interesting discussion on the Blitz. Take note of the ATGM tests (stats will change after the patch).

Also beware of the "hollow" victory objectives. This one sucks.

http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=67874&page=4

[Skoop]

I'm fine with javs the way they are, I hope they don't get nerfed.  It makes up for the severely nerfed NATO CAS airpower in the game.

[Boggit]

is smoke that limited in rl? Do they lack reloads?

Yes. 1-2 pops a vehicle I find. 1 for infantry. If you have mortar support, you can drop rounds also. I use the mortars for large movements -4-5 shells, and the vehicle smoke for retreating or disembarking

Do you use any smoke mods? I find Aris' dust and smoke mod is really immersive, but I've edited the dust .bmp file for Ukraine and CMBN, and use vanilla dust instead - as it kicks out too much dust for those climates (they are just fine otherwise for arid places like you'd find with CMFI, and CMSF). The smoke looks really nice for all CM games though.

[jomni]

I'm fine with javs the way they are, I hope they don't get nerfed.  It makes up for the severely nerfed NATO CAS airpower in the game.

They won't get nerfed based on capabilities. Not sure if they will get more expensive though after the "balancing" patch.
There might be some tweaks on Russian ATGMs.

[jomni]

The smoke looks really nice for all CM games though.

Including that ugly black smoke?