A Valley without Wind?

[meadbelly]

Has anyone tried Valley Without Wind (steam) yet? Impressions?

I don't think I've played a side scroller since defender. I am intrigued by the claims of uniqueness. The price is on the painless side. Would love to hear any impression to help sway me one way or the other.

[Bison]

Looks like you'll be taking one for the team on this one.

[spelk]

I've played it, from a very early stage.

It's a 2d platformer/rpg/rogue-like hybrid, with procedurely generated worlds. If you like 2d platformers, you might like this game.

It's RPG bits are buried in the powers/skills and crafting elements. You do a lot of 2d landscape exploration, and attempt quests, usually killing things, collecting things that sort of stuff. You can face bosses too. The dungeons you enter off the 2d outdoors are also multi-tiered 2d environments, with sometimes labyrinthine layers.

But, I'm not sure AVWW is for me. I think its got too much Metroid style 2d platformer at its heart, and not enough of the RPG/Roguelike that would suck me in.

Have a watch of a recent AVWW "Lets Play" to get a feel for the game.

http://youtu.be/vkItPiXnqB4

As with all Arcengames, they change a lot over time. Patches land all the time, so make sure you watch a recent gameplay vid.

[Nefaro]

I agree with Spelk, it's more platformer than RPG.  The RPG side is pretty much inventory and spell management.  I've enjoyed it some, through the beta, because exploring the procedurally generated stuff can be fun.  I always felt like there just wasn't enough stuff and variety to keep me interested too long - although that was a few months ago last I played, and it has had lots of updates (and new stuff!) since I last checked it out.

I do like it, and it's certainly unusual.  If they've managed to populate it with lots & lots more goodies, then it's a fine purchase IMO.  Judging by all the stuff in AI War, I'd say it's quite possible that such lots will be in there, now or later.

When I swing back by and try it out again, I'll give an updated impression, because I'm planning on giving it a run now that it's nearing official release and has had a good deal of things done to it since last time.

[meadbelly]

^I think it may already be released. It's on sale on Steam. I didn't see anything that suggested it was a beta, although I wasn't looking for that either.

Thanks for the impressions. It may be that a complete lack of expectations may make a difference in my case, as it's probably going to compare favorably to Defender in graphics if nothing more.

For $14, I think I'll take a shot at it. A cheap way of possibly expanding my horizons (although it didn't work with tower or other defense games). I will post thoughts and annoying marquees when I do.

[Nefaro]

Yes, it is now v1.00 or higher so it's officially released.  I had originally purchased it quite awhile back, when it was a pre-order beta.

The release game has changed quite a bit since I last played a couple-three months ago.  I just fired it up and went through the intro area.  The game is definitely fun - especially if you enjoy exploring & looting type games (like me).  I don't think the platforming part is very difficult to do on a mouse & keyboard, even though it has 360 controller support and other such things. 

The RPG-ness of it could be related more to the depth of Heroes of Might & Magic, perhaps, although they're totally different types of games and it's obviously more personal in this case.  Similar to that, however, there are also towns that you can add buildings and craft spells with various loot you found, and other handy things of that nature. 

The real draw of it, for me, is exporing the unlimited (and procedurally-generated!) unknown.  Even in earlier beta, it was fun delving deep deep down into caverns and harvesting/finding loot to make goodies with.  There's a lot of replay value here because, like Terraria, after you finish one level/settlement/world, you can create a new one with the same character (minus his spells) and keep playing on & on with different worlds. 

For $14.. it's an easy purchase.  IIRC, I paid $15 for it in beta.  I wouldn't recommend it for anyone who absolutely hates platforming games, even though there are difficult settings for multiple things (including the platforming) so perhaps that's not so much an issue after all.  But if you don't mind jumping and placing platforms/boxes while you explore, then you'll quite possibly enjoy it.  There's a bit of a learning curve just because the game setting is so unusual; learning the given names of different types of loot, and what they're to be used for, will take a bit to sink in for some of the stuff.  Luckily there is a good amount of pop-up references, a big-ass in-game encyclopedia for all your queries.

Although it's not retro-graphics like Terraria, I'd say that's definitely the most similar one to it regarding gameplay.   Less harvesting, more action and exploring though.

[meadbelly]

Yes, it is now v1.00 or higher so it's officially released.  I had originally purchased it quite awhile back, when it was a pre-order beta.

The release game has changed quite a bit since I last played a couple-three months ago.  I just fired it up and went through the intro area.  The game is definitely fun - especially if you enjoy exploring & looting type games (like me).  I don't think the platforming part is very difficult to do on a mouse & keyboard, even though it has 360 controller support and other such things. 

The RPG-ness of it could be related more to the depth of Heroes of Might & Magic, perhaps, although they're totally different types of games and it's obviously more personal in this case.  Similar to that, however, there are also towns that you can add buildings and craft spells with various loot you found, and other handy things of that nature. 

The real draw of it, for me, is exporing the unlimited (and procedurally-generated!) unknown.  Even in earlier beta, it was fun delving deep deep down into caverns and harvesting/finding loot to make goodies with.  There's a lot of replay value here because, like Terraria, after you finish one level/settlement/world, you can create a new one with the same character (minus his spells) and keep playing on & on with different worlds. 

For $14.. it's an easy purchase.  IIRC, I paid $15 for it in beta.  I wouldn't recommend it for anyone who absolutely hates platforming games, even though there are difficult settings for multiple things (including the platforming) so perhaps that's not so much an issue after all.  But if you don't mind jumping and placing platforms/boxes while you explore, then you'll quite possibly enjoy it.  There's a bit of a learning curve just because the game setting is so unusual; learning the given names of different types of loot, and what they're to be used for, will take a bit to sink in for some of the stuff.  Luckily there is a good amount of pop-up references, a big-ass in-game encyclopedia for all your queries.

Although it's not retro-graphics like Terraria, I'd say that's definitely the most similar one to it regarding gameplay.   Less harvesting, more action and exploring though.

Completely off topic. Nefaro, are you by any chance a fan of Burn Notice? As much as I love Mr. Campbell and would be inclined to loan whatever boomsticks and sugar he requires in Army of Darkness, his role and performance as Sam is right up there with Brisco County (and whatever that short-lived pirate-thingie show was). If you haven't checked Burn Notice out, it's definitely worth some Campbell time.

[Nefaro]

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Didn't know about it because I rarely watch anything on the tube anymore.  So many damn insurance commercials - I already loathe 'em enough without those.

[meadbelly]

You may have to download. Those "characters welcome" folks seem particularly stuck in the cable world. Locally, I had to discover Burn Notice on late night over the air broadcasting. A local digital affiliate of Fox I believe. JoeTV. If you think insurance commercials are bad. . .

[meadbelly]

So I'm about 10 hours into Valley without Wind, and the first thing that comes to mind is. . . Wind may be the ONLY thing you can't do in this game. Ok, no evidence you can rollerskate in a buffalo herd, but we've been warned off that before.

It is, quite frankly, more than a little overwhelming. And it's open-nature may be a problem for me. So far I have no particular desire -- or direction -- to do anything. There's a lot to do, but no particular reason to do it.

Part of my problem may be that I find the side scrolling platforming stuff jarring and therefore unimmersive. (Yes, I know you can turn the platforming off.) I don't have a particular attachment to my avatar as a character, so there's not a easy way to find motivation to do stuff like I might in an open-ended rpg where I can use my character to create/decide purpose and action.

Exploring a world that cannot be fully explored turns out to kind of irritate me. This is undoubtedly informed by my opinion that the best "stories" have been intentionally created and therefore have intentionally created content and locale. Since I know what's going on behind the scenes, there's no sense of accomplishment or discovery in finding "loot" that is there by pure accident. And that the endless exploration simply means I am going to find an endless stream of randomly created stuff.

I won't give it up yet, but so far it hasn't bitten me. And unfortunately, until I get some idea of what I want to do with or in the game, it's merely a chore at the moment.

Please note this is not a dig of the game. It is really a realization that it is probably not the best environment for what I want to get out of games. I think the impressions expressed by others in this thread are spot on. And I can see the allure and the appeal. I think someone who enjoys the freeform and variety of a Dwarf Fortress might enjoy this game as well, for example.  But it may not be for me.

[spelk]

RPS finally post Wot they Think!
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/05/01/wot-i-think-a-valley-without-wind

"Nevertheless, with plenty of time to ponder the vast, melancholy single-player, I find myself disappointed. My fascination with this game had two strands, and they've become irrevocably twisted in the final long analysis of playing the release version. The first strand was a positive interest in the mass of ideas behind it – ambitious, exciting themes and notions about what games could be – and the wonder as to whether this bundle of inspirations would cohere into a game design vision. Alas, they do not. The second strand was a sort of incredulous amazement that this was really how the game looked. Would a game which was presented quite as peculiarly as this is actually work? Were they aiming for something that looked unlike anyone else out there? Every time I saw it I wondered if Arcen could pull it off, against the odds. Alas, they cannot.
A Valley Without Wind was a brave expedition into a dream. Sadly, I think it's one of those dreams that you wake up from thinking "huh, dreams are weird!" Before shrugging off the strange logic, forgetting the feelings of displacement, and getting back to the things that really matter."

[Nefaro]

I think it would be better if it had a lot more shiny RPG loots, in addition to it's current Spell and Town construction materials. 

While there are some wearable type of equipment, they're basically just to allow you into certain areas unharmed.  I had originally hoped it would be like an action-RPG mixed with platformer type deal, but it's not so RPG and I think that's why some people won't like it so much.

I'm having fun exploring some areas but I can only see that going so far before the limited amount of item types gets rather dull.  Levelling your spells boils down to finding the mats to upgrade a couple different damage type ones, and perhaps getting an extra utility one or two.  With all the variety in ship types in Arcen's AI War series, I had hoped for more shiny phat stuff to find.  Instead, it's more about quick platform fighting - like the Metroid reference.  So I dunno.. I'm enjoying it but I don't see myself being addicted for long stretches because the payoff just doesn't have the 'Umpf' that regular action RPGs do in character advancement & outfitting.  It's kinda making me wanna play Terraria again for the fun exploration and sometimes unexpected.

[Huw the Poo]

I've been having fun with AVWW so far.  Being a massive Arcen fanboy I was always going to buy it anyway, and buy it I did as soon as it was available as a beta.

It's a strange game, there's no denying it.  It doesn't seem to know what it wants to be.  I definitely wouldn't recommend it to anyone who hates platforming since that's primarily what you'll be doing.  There's more to it though, of course, but it all depends on how much running and jumping you're prepared to do.  So far I've only done the tutorial and a few missions.  Some time this weekend I'll put a solid night's play into it and post better impressions.  As with all Arcen games, even after release they're actively soliciting player feedback and making use of it.  I put in a feature request myself the other day, and they'd implemented it less than 24 hours later.

Pro tip: Double-tapping left or right to activate Storm Dash is a life-saver.  You can breeze through the surface areas with that one, allowing you to get on with whatever you're in the area to do.

[Nefaro]

Yeah.. like I said, they've done some really big changes with the game, even in beta.  So who knows what they'll add or adjust in it, still.

[RooksBailey]

RPS finally post Wot they Think!
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/05/01/wot-i-think-a-valley-without-wind

"Nevertheless, with plenty of time to ponder the vast, melancholy single-player, I find myself disappointed. My fascination with this game had two strands, and they've become irrevocably twisted in the final long analysis of playing the release version. The first strand was a positive interest in the mass of ideas behind it – ambitious, exciting themes and notions about what games could be – and the wonder as to whether this bundle of inspirations would cohere into a game design vision. Alas, they do not. The second strand was a sort of incredulous amazement that this was really how the game looked. Would a game which was presented quite as peculiarly as this is actually work? Were they aiming for something that looked unlike anyone else out there? Every time I saw it I wondered if Arcen could pull it off, against the odds. Alas, they cannot.
A Valley Without Wind was a brave expedition into a dream. Sadly, I think it's one of those dreams that you wake up from thinking "huh, dreams are weird!" Before shrugging off the strange logic, forgetting the feelings of displacement, and getting back to the things that really matter."

Unfortunately, this review does not surprise me.  I am a huge fan of AI War, so I was really interested in A Valley Without Wind, especially when they mentioned the whole endless game concept.  But I started to have misgivings when they began with the awkward, semi-isometric presentation of the first build, and then scuttled that altogether in favor of a side scroller.  I kept an open mind, but after trying one of the early beta builds, the game just didn't click with me at all. 

Oh well.  Here's to AI War 2.   ;D