Combat Air Patrol 2

[JudgeDredd]

Yeah - sorry. I wanted to give it some good vibes at least, being early access - but I really didn't see anything worth £22.

[trek]

Purchased CAP2 earlier today as soon as it was available for DL. I only played it for 13 minutes and had enough. IMHO it's terrible. I at least expected the graphics to be up to date since it's a new title and they are subpar as well. I installed SF2 and SF2V about a month ago on my new PC rig and added all the mods I like to enhance the gameplay experience. SF is superior in every way over CAP2 if you want a casual Combat Flight sim. I just submitted a refund request to Steam for my $29.99. I've never asked for a refund before but this time I'm making an exception. Really bummed about this one after all the hype.

[Toonces]

JH, after reading JD's thoughts, browsing the SimHQ threads, and reading the Steam reviews, I encourage you to hold off on this.  This game is just going to piss you off in its current state.

I can probably deal with a Strike Fighters level of fidelity if the bugs are ironed out with setting up the controllers, and if the dynamic campaign part is decent.  Haven't read anything on how the campaign plays out yet, and that's really what's going to push me one way or the other.  Probably worth waiting at least until some Let's Plays end up on Youtube.

Anyway, just my thoughts.  You know I'm a flight sim fanatic, and I'm firmly in the wait and see camp on this one.  I didn't read anything that made me feel like I'm missing anything by not being in on the early access.

[JudgeDredd]

I did start the campaign, but 1-2 minutes of watching the map, I failed  I hadn't even taken off or gone into "3D" - and I put that in quotes for a reason 

I really, really wish I had put the 90 minutes into HoI IV or TW:Warhammer or Stellaris.

[Grim.Reaper]

Well, looks like good that others beat me to buying today:)  Although I'll eventually pick up I am sure, guess I will wait a bit to see more positive reactions.

[JudgeDredd]

Well, maybe I was wrong....there are 15 positive reviews on Steam to 7 negative.

So it's scratching some itches

[Grim.Reaper]

Good to see...but I typically dont trust the steam reviews, since the majority are created after playing just a short while.

What most concerns me so far is really the lack of communication and involvement of the developers in the community.  To me that is critical for an early access game and without it makes me uneasy about its future.

[Grim.Reaper]

A little write up on it...

https://forums.mudspike.com/t/combat-air-patrol-2-first-few-flights/2168

[Jarhead0331]

No offense, JD, while I absolutely value your opinion, I've learned that you get frustrated pretty easily if things don't work the way you expect them to straight away. You get impatient, go from excited to pissed in 2.3 seconds and give up. I keep this in the back of my mind.

I spent a couple of hours researching the state of the game last night and watched some very useful instructional videos on how to actually fly a harrier, both in game and in the real world. I read a lot of the player reviews, both good and bad, and read from the developer that there are going to be several patches released this week, starting today. This put me over the edge. I figured, if I keep it under 2 hours, what do I have to lose?  I went into this with the full knowledge that in some ways, it may be a complete crash and burn.

My initial experience was not nearly as frustrating as JDs because I had learned from his mistakes, and from others who had experimented with the game before I played. I learned to save all my control settings, etc. More importantly, I learned how to fly the harrier, so to speak, and was able to get a nice STO on the first try. To me, the flight felt good, and the graphics are nice, overall. My screen wasn't as dark as JDs so I don't know if it has something to do with the settings, our monitors or video cards, etc.

Anyway, that's all I did. I configured my graphics and controls, took off and flew around for 10 minutes. It was far from the worst experience I ever had.

Admittedly, this game has a LONG way to go. There are a lot of things that are placeholder, unfinished textures, features that are not implemented, etc. I'm putting a lot of faith in the developer that he will actually finish this game. I'm going to come straight out and say, I don't trust him either. I don't think he has been honest about the state of the game and why the game was so seriously delayed. Although the game was released in early access, there was no discussion about the state of the game or an explanation that it would really be incomplete and in need of a lot of work and attention.

So, I'm going to remain guarded and see how many patches role out over the next two weeks.

I'll keep you guys posted.

[Grim.Reaper]

Good to hear some potential possibly...

[JudgeDredd]

No problem JH - you're entitled to that opinion and I can't say I haven't done things in the past that don't warrant those comments...glad you have a filter  O0

However - it wasn't 2.3 seconds...it was 90 minutes  ;) And honestly, that was enough for me to know that I wouldn't be playing it and wouldn't be giving feedback - not at this stage.

I think my initial post about those various aspects were on the money. I did not post anything there that I did not feel or actually see. Some of those (graphics, sound, immersion) are personal assertions and I did repeat it was early access and that I hadn't had a huge amount of playtime.

But I wasn't so much frustrated as disappointed. I was just disappointed with the overall package. Were my expectations too high? I suppose so. Maybe I've been spoiled with some other early access titles. My early access purchase from DCS were considerable (years ahead) of this...so yes, I was expecting more. Was that the developers fault? Nope. And I wouldn't look to blame the developer. But there just wasn't enough there to interest me.

My only real frustration with the setting up of the game (controls and graphics) weren't because I hadn't saved them - it was because the game crashed and I had to reset them.

I had absolutely zero frustration with take off. I was doing it wrong and knew this. I stuck with it and was satisfied that I was able to do so.

I actually thought that guy's write up was ok. Pointed out some things I had noticed and he didn't mind some things that I cared about.

Also I am a huge graphics whore and like I said, I had hoped it had moved on from some of the images. It's way too dark. My brightness/contrast/hue does not need modifying for any other games, so I didn't expect to do so. I certainly could've upped the brightness - but it was just the dark - and overall I thought the whole thing was bland looking.

Also - I was able to take off and I'm pleased to say in exactly the way the guy in GRs report did - brakes on, flaps, 0 nozzle degree, off I go and get to the edge and turn the nozzles to 40-60% - whatever I ended up as and the take off was smooth.

I didn't try to land on the carrier, but I did land on the ground.

Overall, I thought it was bland. Flight model. Graphics. Sound. Immersion. Visual effects. I want to see this succeed.

Like I said - if the game gets to anywhere near what's being marketed I will pick this up and damn the price. I'd pay double what I paid yesterday - but I don't have the inclination to play it in it's current form so there was no need for me to continue with it.

I will keep watching what goes on with this - so keep posting when there's an update and maybe I'll be able to hop on in again at some point.

[Jarhead0331]

I'd give it a 50/50 odds at this point. Like I said, if patches are frequent and effective, those odds may improve. I'm in a tough spot because it's hard to really explore and try everything out while also trying to keep it under 2 hours.

You know, I didn't have any CTDs, but that's likely because I only played for 10 minutes and kept it really simple. Likewise, I didn't try any of the avionics that either are non existent or simply not working. Moreover, I certainly didn't try employing any weapons.

One thing that is really bothering me is the head bob. They mapped this stupid head bob to the main flight controls, so every time you work the controls your view changes too in an effort to model head movement. This makes viewing the cockpit and your surroundings extremely difficult. They need to make an option to turn this off immediately.

[Jarhead0331]

No problem JH - you're entitled to that opinion and I can't say I haven't done things in the past that don't warrant those comments...glad you have a filter  O0

However - it wasn't 2.3 seconds...it was 90 minutes  ;) And honestly, that was enough for me to know that I wouldn't be playing it and wouldn't be giving feedback - not at this stage.

I think my initial post about those various aspects were on the money. I did not post anything there that I did not feel or actually see. Some of those (graphics, sound, immersion) are personal assertions and I did repeat it was early access and that I hadn't had a huge amount of playtime.

But I wasn't so much frustrated as disappointed. I was just disappointed with the overall package. Were my expectations too high? I suppose so. Maybe I've been spoiled with some other early access titles. My early access purchase from DCS were considerable (years ahead) of this...so yes, I was expecting more. Was that the developers fault? Nope. And I wouldn't look to blame the developer. But there just wasn't enough there to interest me.

My only real frustration with the setting up of the game (controls and graphics) weren't because I hadn't saved them - it was because the game crashed and I had to reset them.

I had absolutely zero frustration with take off. I was doing it wrong and knew this. I stuck with it and was satisfied that I was able to do so.

I actually thought that guy's write up was ok. Pointed out some things I had noticed and he didn't mind some things that I cared about.

Also I am a huge graphics whore and like I said, I had hoped it had moved on from some of the images. It's way too dark. My brightness/contrast/hue does not need modifying for any other games, so I didn't expect to do so. I certainly could've upped the brightness - but it was just the dark - and overall I thought the whole thing was bland looking.

Also - I was able to take off and I'm pleased to say in exactly the way the guy in GRs report did - brakes on, flaps, 0 nozzle degree, off I go and get to the edge and turn the nozzles to 40-60% - whatever I ended up as and the take off was smooth.

I didn't try to land on the carrier, but I did land on the ground.

Overall, I thought it was bland. Flight model. Graphics. Sound. Immersion. Visual effects. I want to see this succeed.

Like I said - if the game gets to anywhere near what's being marketed I will pick this up and damn the price. I'd pay double what I paid yesterday - but I don't have the inclination to play it in it's current form so there was no need for me to continue with it.

I will keep watching what goes on with this - so keep posting when there's an update and maybe I'll be able to hop on in again at some point.

All of your comments are valid and accurate. So please dont think I'm questioning that. I have no doubt that the technical glitches, bugs and crashes are game stopping. I just didn't experience them because I only played for 10 minutes.

It's a fair assessment to state that maybe your expectations were too high. I totally expected this to be bad, that doesn't excuse it, I just was really prepared for the worst. As a lawyer, I'm always managing my client's expectations, I feel the developer here utterly failed to do this through infrequent, poor and vague communications. In all likelihood, this game will be a failure. It will not raise the funds necessary to continue development. I think this will largely be due in part to the developers poor communication and inability to manage information and expectations.

[JudgeDredd]

All of your comments are valid and accurate. So please dont think I'm questioning that. I have no doubt that the technical glitches, bugs and crashes are game stopping. I just didn't experience them because I only played for 10 minutes.

It's a fair assessment to state that maybe your expectations were too high. I totally expected this to be bad, that doesn't excuse it, I just was really prepared for the worst. As a lawyer, I'm always managing my client's expectations, I feel the developer here utterly failed to do this through infrequent, poor and vague communications. In all likelihood, this game will be a failure. It will not raise the funds necessary to continue development. I think this will largely be due in part to the developers poor communication and inability to manage information and expectations.

I understand. Certainly from a technical perspective, if a game challenges me and I don't "get it", that can and does come out in posts as frustration. So it's a fair comment.

But this was definitely more disappointment than frustration. I was incredibly excited to see a Harrier in development and so yes - expectations were probably high. Also - not once have I been disappointed with any of the DCS early access stuff I've bought...so spoiled?

You did try and put a "guarded" post out there - but I was still seeing a Harrier, with a dynamic campaign. The detail on the website was incredible - and that did add fuel to the fire of my enthusiasm...even Early Access couldn't take that away. I was expecting some issues - I just wasn't expecting a meh experience.

If the game had looked fantastic and the campaign was great or even the tutorials were proper, instructional tutorials but there were some glitches, CTD's etc - I would definitely have forgiven it. I'd even have taken the rather simplistic flight model (take off and landing were challenging mind - as they should be). First and foremost for me is graphics (for eye candy and immersion) and also overall immersion - and it simply wasn't there.

It certainly isn't the worst game I've bought and nor is it the best game.

I wouldn't want it to be a failure and that wasn't my intention for the post. I did say several times that it was early access and that my experience of it was limited. I was also straight back over here to post that reviews were going up on Steam that were positive...just so people could take a tempered approach to my thoughts.

But if he chucks out updates and this gets better quick, I would definitely jump back in. It is a Harrier after all.

[JudgeDredd]

I'd give it a 50/50 odds at this point. Like I said, if patches are frequent and effective, those odds may improve. I'm in a tough spot because it's hard to really explore and try everything out while also trying to keep it under 2 hours.

You know, I didn't have any CTDs, but that's likely because I only played for 10 minutes and kept it really simple. Likewise, I didn't try any of the avionics that either are non existent or simply not working. Moreover, I certainly didn't try employing any weapons.

One thing that is really bothering me is the head bob. They mapped this stupid head bob to the main flight controls, so every time you work the controls your view changes too in an effort to model head movement. This makes viewing the cockpit and your surroundings extremely difficult. They need to make an option to turn this off immediately.

My CTDs were in the setting up phase I believe. I don't recall having one in game. Also ALT-Tabbing was absolutely fine.

I was wondering what was wrong when flying and the head was moving. I couldn't put my finger on that.

Also - one last thing and then I'll put this to bed -  the TrackIR thing - waaaay too sensitive. But I will be honest - I didn't go back and tweak it. TrackIR may help a lot with adding immersion. As it was I was pretty much stuck looking at the front of the cockpit (because I didn't map any keys to the views).