Tigers on the Hunt

[gameleaper]

Uhhgg...shields down!....close to buying!.....  :D

If you like ASL, the turn-sequence does a good job of making you feel ASL, the flow feels just like playing a starter-kit, the ATGs are satisfying shooting. I do enjoy it a lot more than JTiller games, but JTiller has more stats and detail.

[Moreb]

I'm really on the fence with this one. On one hand I think I'll be put off by the lack of tangible info ongoing and on the other I'd like to support the guys effort to bring the tactical level to computer.

I'm really hoping Lock & Load does away with the spotting rule in their version of L&L Tactical. HoS was a great looking presentation somewhat spoiled by that silly spotting rule. Turned more than a few off.

Toth is a bit more expensive than I thought it might be. I'm not usually so tight with my gaming dollars but I own so many titles I don't actually play.

[Rayfer]

I'm really on the fence with this one. On one hand I think I'll be put off by the lack of tangible info ongoing and on the other I'd like to support the guys effort to bring the tactical level to computer.

I'm really hoping Lock & Load does away with the spotting rule in their version of L&L Tactical. HoS was a great looking presentation somewhat spoiled by that silly spotting rule. Turned more than a few off.

Toth is a bit more expensive than I thought it might be. I'm not usually so tight with my gaming dollars but I own so many titles I don't actually play.

Interesting comment Moreb....it was the spotting rules that turned me off to HoS as well. I always felt like I was battling the rules rather than the enemy.

[Barthheart]

As a long time player of the LnL tactical series I can tell you that the spotting rule is not going anywhere. In the hundreds of scenarios I've played I've maybe used spotting a few dozen times.

If you are on the attack you don't have time to waste trying to spot. If you are on the defence you just have to wait for the attacker to move/fire and then shoot at him. The game is about maneuvering not sitting across from each other and blasting away.

Yes it's very different from most other tactical systems and one of the reasons I play it so much. It does take time to untrained yourself from other systems though...

Tigers on the Hunt looks like a really great version of the ASL for the PC. I'll be getting it sooner or later. It looks fun and sounds like it's challenging which is the entire point of our hobby. Good job BJ.  O0

[jomni]

As a long time player of the LnL tactical series I can tell you that the spotting rule is not going anywhere. In the hundreds of scenarios I've played I've maybe used spotting a few dozen times.

If you are on the attack you don't have time to waste trying to spot. If you are on the defence you just have to wait for the attacker to move/fire and then shoot at him. The game is about maneuvering not sitting across from each other and blasting away.

Yes it's very different from most other tactical systems and one of the reasons I play it so much. It does take time to untrained yourself from other systems though...

Tigers on the Hunt looks like a really great version of the ASL for the PC. I'll be getting it sooner or later. It looks fun and sounds like it's challenging which is the entire point of our hobby. Good job BJ.  O0

Spotting rule is an abstraction of Fog of War which is absent in a boardgame because both players see every counter.

[Moreb]

Pulling the trigger on Tigers now.

As for the spotting rules in HoS, I hated them merely because there was no bonus added for units that engaged them supposedly moments prior.

I am speaking of the computer version. It's been a while since I played but wasn't there already hidden units and fow?

[Moreb]

Of course a problem with my order. Help ticket sent.

Maybe tomorrow.

[jomni]

Pulling the trigger on Tigers now.

As for the spotting rules in HoS, I hated them merely because there was no bonus added for units that engaged them supposedly moments prior.

I am speaking of the computer version. It's been a while since I played but wasn't there already hidden units and fow?

I hated the computer version because the missions seems more like s puzzle.

[Michael Dorosh]

I bit the bullet. I had bought Tigers Unleashed (different game) a while back but was unimpressed, mostly by the fact it had geomorphic maps and you couldn't edit them.

I will give this a little more of a trial, but if anyone thinks this will be ASL for the computer, they're naturally going to be disappointed.

Good news - for me at least - the map editor is a full-blown scenario creator, maps from scratch, OOB and all.

As noted, the turn sequence is very similar to ASL - if one wanted to be unkind, they could say "ripped off" as there are lots of things identical, from the majority of the phase system (admin ("rally"), fire (prep fire), movement, defensive fire, attacker's fire (Advancing fire), rout, advance and close combat. There are pin and break results, residual fire during the enemy's movement phase, etc.

The maps may be a stumbling block, as I see (correct me if wrong) there are no walls, hedges or bocage, and most importantly, no upper levels in buildings. Looks like you have specific blank templates (in other words, can't pick the size of the map down to the number of hexrows and columns), but also the ability to designate hexes unplayable, so I suppose you can customize the map sizes with a workaround.

There seem to be some bugs still as myself and at least one other player have already noted that you can advance pinned or broken units when stacked with a leader.

The AI seems fairly static but I haven't played enough to really judge it. What I can judge is the UI which is not intuitive. To fire or move any unit you have to click on it twice, once on the map, and once in the OB list for that hex that pops up. It gets tedious quickly, especially if firing all the weapons in an AFV - you can CTRL click to fire multiple units together, but apparently not multiple tank weapons? So you have to click everything three times (unit on the map, unit on the hex listing, then the specific weapon you want to fire). And you have to remember to LEFT click the map, LEFT click the unit (and CTRL-LEFT click to select multiple units), then RIGHT click to indicate a target. I'm not a programmer, but I have to believe there are simpler ways to do this.

And there doesn't seem to be any way to expand the counter stacks (as in VASL), so you have to click the map to see what is in the hex, and get a sea of white text. They might have had different colour fonts to show at a glance who is broken, but they don't, and if you have stacked units, you can't see what is underneath, so you have to click each hex and try to remember where your broken guys are. I admit to not reading the manual thoroughly so perhaps this is addressed - but if so, it is not intuitive either. (CORRECTION - you can right click and hold to see units in a hex).

There is plenty to like - the order of battle seems robust and the editor seems fairly flexible with lots of terrain showing up from ASL - 4 levels of hexes, orchards, woods, brush, crag, two types of roads, stone and wood buildings, grain - and the irritations listed above could probably be worked out. The trenches, I note, are terrain elements (as in Combat Mission) rather than a fortification you can place at will.

I have to say though, that after 30 years of buying products touted as "ASL for the computer" - beginning with Under Fire in 1985 - I think at some point someone needs to step up with a product that isn't just amusing squeaks and squiggles that requires apologies in advance. Lock'n'Load features some nice artwork evocative of hand-painted boardgaming equipment. I don't know what to say about the artwork in this one. I know the game is supposed to be the thing, but after trying out the Tutorial and not getting anywhere near the objectives - which the computer defended by sitting stock still -  (and reading that you can't play PBEM) I wonder just how far this will get on the game quality alone.

What I did like was that at least the phases were obvious - never confused about what was happening or whose turn it was - and that the fire attacks were resolved quickly (unlike Steel Panthers, where you would sit for what seemed like hours, either watching the same animated combat sprites, or turning the sprites off and not getting enough time to read the results). Clicking everything multiple times is a pain, but at least the info was presented when you did so and while it took time to navigate the whole map, I got a feel of the overall situation nonetheless - didn't often feel like that in Steel Panthers.

There is something to be said for supporting developers who are at least trying to raise the bar as far as squad-based simulations go - I don't know that this does, but if the dev/publisher is committed to expanding this (multi-level buildings would, I think, be a must) it is not a bad start.

[Thomasew]

Hi,

I haven't spent enough time with the game, .. to fully comment on your findings.  ???

However, ..

And there doesn't seem to be any way to expand the counter stacks (as in VASL), so you have to click the map to see what is in the hex, and get a sea of white text. They might have had different colour fonts to show at a glance who is broken, but they don't, and if you have stacked units, you can't see what is underneath, so you have to click each hex and try to remember where your broken guys are. I admit to not reading the manual thoroughly so perhaps this is addressed - but if so, it is not intuitive either.

Right-Clicking on a hex, .. opens a window that displays all units, and their status, (see pic) ..  in the hex.  :)

Page 21 of the manual, .. however, I found it without having read the manual, .. just by right-clicking on a hex .. so, that's kinda intuitive.  :)


Cheers
Tom

[Yskonyn]

Spotting rule is an abstraction of Fog of War which is absent in a boardgame because both players see every counter.

ASL alleviates this somewhat with Hidden (not visible at all on the board until a certain event) and ? counters which might be dummies. Pretty good compromise if you ask me.

[gameleaper]

I like this game very much

[MikeGER]

gameleaper,
those questions will not be answered to a pleasable amount. They just cant for obvious reason. 

I studied all! the posts here and over at Matrix and when i read between the lines in the different posts and threads and the inspired by phrase like hitten a brick wall when the bugging get too instense.   
I guesstimate if we would just take the ASL rulebook and tables and after enuf statistic sampling of experimental situation setups (reverse engineering) we will find out these numbers are exactly the inner workings.  (which is intended,...and great :) actually i would be disappointed if not  ;) )

Of course the publisher/developer cant lay those number and mechanics all to open because if a certain threshold get stepped the ugly faced lawyers of the ASL-licence holder will show up for the copy right claims  ...and nobody in the community want that.

So i think we just have to taken that inspired by fact for granted and all detailed answers are literally in the ASL documenation
Unforunatly players who want to dig a little deeper in TotH and who dont have ASL rules around have to browse the Internet and/or watch ASL tutorial vid on youtube.
(for example like this i found in a sec: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e_d46Q2dbc )
       

[Double Deuce]

I haven't decided to get this yet or not. I'm waiting for any kinks to be worked out but I must say I am certainly enjoying seeing all the information you guys are posting. Seems the game has a decent design foundation so far.

[gameleaper]

MikeGER thankyou for putting me on the right track, I didn't know it was like that. the game just got a lot more interesting for Me, I can be a dumbo at times ;)