John Tiller's Latest; Panzer Battles 2 - Normandy released

Cyrano · May 10, 2016, 07:43:17 PM

This kind of support does both you and the company great credit.

Thank you for it.

panzerde · May 10, 2016, 08:56:25 PM

Very nice! Thanks David! Looking forward to replaying some of these scenarios with the changes.

Blastpop · June 14, 2016, 02:26:41 PM

I'm really torn on the two games of this series. I love battles on the Eastern Front so the Kursk game would seem to dovetail nicely with my interests. The Normandy game has a lot more scenarios from invasions to airborne drops and tank battles. Having $40.00 to buy one leaves me anguishing over which one to purchase. Additionally the system probably has developed from the first release to the second game. Totally torn here. Should I wait for the third release for a more interesting and systemically better developed title? I'm sure either will be great. Maybe someone who has both can fill me in on their thoughts?

Also the download, what kind of DRM is it. Can I use it on more than one of my personal computers? Can I back it up on my jump drive? Is there a DRM key? Can't find anything on the Tiller website to allude to the procedure before I purchase and download. One last question if I purchase will I be able to download immediately or is there human intervention I have to wait for to get the download?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

panzerde · June 14, 2016, 03:08:26 PM

Quote from: Blastpop on June 14, 2016, 02:26:41 PM
I'm really torn on the two games of this series. I love battles on the Eastern Front so the Kursk game would seem to dovetail nicely with my interests. The Normandy game has a lot more scenarios from invasions to airborne drops and tank battles. Having $40.00 to buy one leaves me anguishing over which one to purchase. Additionally the system probably has developed from the first release to the second game. Totally torn here. Should I wait for the third release for a more interesting and systemically better developed title? I'm sure either will be great. Maybe someone who has both can fill me in on their thoughts?

If I were to get just one, and my interest in both theaters was equal, I'd get Normandy. In terms of mechanics the games are very close, though Normandy has a few features and graphical improvements over Kursk. I also find the mix of scenarios in Normandy more engaging for exactly the reasons you cite. However, if you have more interest in one theater than another, get that one. They are similar enough and they both have great replay value.

Quote
Also the download, what kind of DRM is it. Can I use it on more than one of my personal computers? Can I back it up on my jump drive? Is there a DRM key? Can't find anything on the Tiller website to allude to the procedure before I purchase and download. One last question if I purchase will I be able to download immediately or is there human intervention I have to wait for to get the download?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Probably best for Strela to field the details of this. In terms of DRM JTS uses a one-time online code activation where at instal you need to provide a serial number, and you have to be online to do that. Thereafter, it doesn't bug you. I've not had a DRM failure where I've had to reactivate an installed game, ever. I've also never had any problems reactivating a game that I reinstalled, like when reformatting a drive or setting up a new computer.

I definitely back up the downloaded installer elsewhere and I run regular backups of my computer that backup the installed game; I would assume if the destination for your backup is a jump drive it would work. As an IT professional I'd caution you against using a jump drive for backup, but that's nothing to do with the game.

Downloads are basically immediate after purchase. I've bought JTS games at all hours and received the download email and link within a couple of minutes at least. I suppose that they may have enslaved Oompah Loompahs or something doing manual processing at all hours (I would, because that's what Oompah Loompahs deserve), but I suspect it's completely automated.

Hope that helps!

Strela · June 16, 2016, 01:41:29 AM

Quote from: Blastpop on June 14, 2016, 02:26:41 PM
I'm really torn on the two games of this series. I love battles on the Eastern Front so the Kursk game would seem to dovetail nicely with my interests. The Normandy game has a lot more scenarios from invasions to airborne drops and tank battles. Having $40.00 to buy one leaves me anguishing over which one to purchase. Additionally the system probably has developed from the first release to the second game. Totally torn here. Should I wait for the third release for a more interesting and systemically better developed title? I'm sure either will be great. Maybe someone who has both can fill me in on their thoughts?

Also the download, what kind of DRM is it. Can I use it on more than one of my personal computers? Can I back it up on my jump drive? Is there a DRM key? Can't find anything on the Tiller website to allude to the procedure before I purchase and download. One last question if I purchase will I be able to download immediately or is there human intervention I have to wait for to get the download?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Hi Blastpop,

Thanks for looking at our games. I think Panzerde has done a good job of the reasons to consider either - go with what interests you the most. There is a lot of free documentation at John Tiller's site to help you with the decision.

One comment to your 'more developed' comment. John Tiller patches every game in the series up to the latest standard. We haven't done that for Kursk yet, but you can expect that all the enhancements that are in Normandy will soon be available in Kursk. That covers the actual way the game runs and I can honestly say the research and scenario work are on par. The team who built both games have done prior titles for Tiller and Panzer Battles is definitely a step up on those, but there is not a deficit in Kursk compared to Normandy. Probably the biggest difference is the breadth of topic. Kursk covered 10 or so days of the same battle, Normandy covers over two months on multiple fronts - they are different beasts and we will probably not do as expansive title as Normandy again. One other thing on Kursk - you will find scenarios and situations that no one else has covered from a gaming perspective - it's not just 'attack the bunker lines' that everyone expects. There was quite a bit of open ground fighting particularly after the first two days.

The other reason we haven't released the Kursk patch is we have some developments underway currently that will significantly enhance both released titles and we want to co-ordinate with that - more on that to follow.

As far as DRM, it's been pretty unobtrusive. You get a standard installation exe and a game key. You can back these up anywhere you would like. Once you install the game it will ask for the key to be entered. This does a one time check that it is a valid key to the back-end (i.e. you have to be online only at this time) and then it will never check again UNLESS you install on a different machine.

Finally, there was originally a limit to the number of machines the key could be installed on. I believe that has been significantly loosened (I have never heard of any one hitting a limit) so that you can install the game on multiple machines. The key will be validated only the first time the game is installed on a machine. As far as abuse of keys - we can monitor the number of times a key has been used and if excessive, reach out to the registered user/email for that key. Again something I have not heard of happening.

So all in all, it's a pretty liberal system.

As far as download it should be pretty quick - I believe it's automated in that you're sent an email once you're payment is cleared. The email will have the download link and key. As far as Doug's enslaved Oompah Loompah's, I am on the other side of the world (to the US) and they haven't employed us to cover the night shift (yet!)!!! ::)

Hope that helps and I hope you decide to buy one of the titles.

David

Boggit · June 17, 2016, 05:06:08 PM

FWIW, I have both games, and like them very much. Like Strela says they have a lot of varied situations, and I agree that playing the Kursk game there is much more to it than just fighting through bunker lines and mines. Most of the scenarios from both games represent every from battalion to corps size (and sometimes a bit bigger). If you like fighting with platoon/company units as your manoeuver unit, these are great games IMHO. O0

rocketman · June 19, 2016, 11:41:33 AM

I bought this game a few weeks ago and must say it is an excellent game. The scale and level of complexity is perfect. Finally a game with the beach landing and para missions of D-day I always wanted.

One day I might even play "The Longest Day".

It is my first John Tiller game and have a few questions regarding stuff I couldn't fins in the manual:

I can't find a menu to start campaigns and variable scenarios (like previewed earlier in this thread). How do I start them?
Is it possible to cancel a planned air strike and replan it?
Is there any way of knowing what equipment infantry units have? Surely combat strength can't be based on manpower and morale only?
Is there any way of knowing the range of possible fire for a unit?
Is there any way of always having the "hotspot hex" terrain info displayed? It is a hassle to right click on it all the time.
Why does an enemy spotted and abandoned trench/bunke disappear from the map and only show up when you position a unit on the hex?
Why is it possible to know the status of mines in a hex occupied by the enemy even with fog of war on? Seems unlikely.
What is"no valid targets in hex" caused by?

jomni · June 20, 2016, 01:31:33 AM

Based on experience with John Tiller Software games, the campaign is a separate exe.

ComradeP · June 20, 2016, 03:27:52 AM

The campaign is a seperate .exe, the variable scenarios are listed in the lower part of the regular scenario list.

I'm not sure if there's a hotkey to cancel planned air strikes.

Aside from looking at weapon an infantryman is holding in the picture in the unit info sidebar, I don't think you can tell what kind of equipment infantry units have. Soft and hard attack values are based on historical equipment, however.

The range can be viewed by clicking and holding the right mouse button on the unit in the unit info sidebar. You can also go to view>shade>maximum range. Red is the hard attack range, green is the soft attack range. If the unit has a minimum range, hexes close or adjacent to the unit will be blacked out.

You mean viewing the info you see when right clicking on a hex in the sidebar? I'm not sure if that can be brought up through other means.

This models units forgetting about abandoned positions, which has some issues as it also means your units might run into the same minefield over and over after having spotted it and moving away, but it's the way things work.

Minefields shouldn't be visible to you unless you're on top of them or adjacent to them. If you're adjacent to them, you could say knowing their strength is an abstraction of a forward patrol probing how strong the enemy defensive positions are.

The "no valid targets in the hex" error comes up when targeting a unit of a target type (hard/soft) that is out of hard/soft attack range of the selected unit.

rocketman · June 20, 2016, 07:05:03 AM

Thanks for the reply. Regarding spotting mines in enemy hexes, I have seen that from not adjacent hexes.
Another thing I didn't find in the manual is how the advantage setting when starting a scenario affects gameplay. Does it give higher quality units, perform better in combat, more units, lesser fatigue, or?
I have also noted, which seems like a bug is that if you activate one of your units and try to move it to a hex far away and out of sight, the text in the lower left hand corner will say "can't move to a hex that contains an enemy unit" - which basically breaks the fog of war concept. Not that it is a major thing, but still.

ComradeP · June 20, 2016, 02:18:59 PM

I'm not entirely sure how minefield spotting works. Note that a minefield has a "side" that it belongs to and that you can always spot minefields belonging to your side (Axis, Russian or Allied).

I'm not sure what the advantage slider actually does and, curiously, can't find a thread about it at The Blitz using the search function.

I just tested it in a small scenario and I only get that error if the unit is actually adjacent to an enemy unit when I trace a path to a hex with an enemy unit. Maybe you've found a bug where it happens over long distances, I'd have to check.

Moreb · August 07, 2016, 08:17:52 PM

New to JT's games so maybe it is the unfamiliarity of the system but, I'm finding using the many menus/selections/actions/orders cumbersome. Are there shortcuts/hotkeys that help?

Keys for things like visible hexes and reachable hexes etc.?

Thanks in advance

panzerde · August 07, 2016, 08:50:25 PM

There's a list of shortcut keys in the manual. The PDF of the manual is in your game install folder, specifically you want pzb.pdf. Shortcuts are on page 56.

Moreb · August 07, 2016, 09:12:32 PM

Awesome. I did a search through the user manual but didnt come up with anything.

Thanks again

panzerde · August 07, 2016, 09:20:10 PM

Quote from: Moreb on August 07, 2016, 09:12:32 PM
Awesome. I did a search through the user manual but didnt come up with anything.

Thanks again

It's kind of confusing - there are two "user manuals:" user.pdf and pzb.pdf. Both are required reading to fully understand the mechanics and the UI.

There's a lot of other really useful stuff in there too, including documentation for the various game editors, some incredible designer's notes, and an extensive visual order of battle. Some really good stuff!