And the current Islamic terrorist attack is...

[Boggit]

do you not think the foundations for reasoned discussion are eroded with every axe attack on a train, every child underneath the wheels of a lorry, every wife and mother groped and abused whilst out shopping?

im in the UK, my daughter is safe my parents are safe but im not sure how id feel about reasoned discussion and intelligent progress if i get the knock on the door explaining another muslim with an agenda has decided its my families turn to be in the news - theres a lot of anger everywhere, and like Ubercat said, its easy to poke fun at those demanding extreme justice, but what does anyone else suggest - because multiculturism is so far down the toilet its not going to be about sitting around a table discussing who everyone can be appeased

+1.
I share the same view. If it were my family in the frame, I'd want vengeance. The problem when it's someone else is that we are distanced from the problem and less passionate. The regular attacks on civilians means that the well of tolerance is drying up. I want to see Muslims being seen to oppose those who "act in their name". Mere words are not enough any more.

[Boggit]

I suspect as long as we in the west harbour fantasies of reasoned discussion with the extremists in their society and they teach their children to kill us at all costs we'll always be the side wringing our hands and crying round candles at random spots across Europe

From what I saw from the stuff Sauron sent me after Nice, I think that time is past. The French are incredibly angry will Hollande and Valls, and I think they feel pushed to the point when next time it happens in France you'll start seeing counter terror starting on the communities that breed the scum who do this. I wonder just what will happen should this occur?

The sad thing is that at the Nice atrocity - Muslims, as well as non-Muslims - were killed by the IS terrorist, so is it fair if counter terror be unleashed on a community which is hurt by Islamist terror also? A lot of innocent people who are not connected might get hurt, so justifiably radicalising them in the interest of self preservation. It's what IS wants, and I fear they'll get their way with a bloody result for all if its allowed to fester. :(

[Marty Ward]

I suspect as long as we in the west harbour fantasies of reasoned discussion with the extremists in their society and they teach their children to kill us at all costs we'll always be the side wringing our hands and crying round candles at random spots across Europe

And I suspect if we don't have reasoned discussions with the non-extremists on how to deal with extremism within their culture we will always be at war with 'those' people', whoever they may be.
No one is born an extremist and we can't identify who will become one but one thing is certain, there will always be some who are extremists regardless of what we do. I would say that discussions will play some role in reducing the number of them.

[undercovergeek]

I would say that discussions will play some role in reducing the number of them.

based on what records of success from the past?

[Marty Ward]

I would say that discussions will play some role in reducing the number of them.

based on what records of success from the past?

Seems to me that Israel was somehow able to make peace with Egypt. They are somewhat friendly with Jordan. East Pakistan is no longer at war like odds with India. Do you need more examples?

[undercovergeek]

You have me at a disadvantage - I'm unsure in any of your examples where representatives of the extremist cause were actively targeting innocents and children - those appear to be nation states at war

[Marty Ward]

You have me at a disadvantage - I'm unsure in any of your examples where representatives of the extremist cause were actively targeting innocents and children - those appear to be nation states at war

You mean nations that go to war with each other, particularly when the goal is extermination of one of the participants, s are not examples of extreme behavior? Nations that threaten to wipe out the other side are examples of moderate or rational behavior?

At some point there needs to be discussions with the non-extremists in the places where extremists are created/found. It is pretty much as simple as that. You can't kill an idea and you can't kill'em all.

[Labbug]

There are reports of a shooting at mall in Munich, Germany. 

[MikeGER]

Munich under attack ... no real good sitreps yet, ... several attackers at different (or at least two) spot synchronized or one team shooting while on the run   ...soft target a shopping mall hit, several dead people reported, but not confirmed.

[MikeGER]

a bystanders video just surfaced

[mirth]

Just saw it come across the news here, Mike. More insanity.

[Zulu1966]

do you not think the foundations for reasoned discussion are eroded with every axe attack on a train, every child underneath the wheels of a lorry, every wife and mother groped and abused whilst out shopping?

im in the UK, my daughter is safe my parents are safe but im not sure how id feel about reasoned discussion and intelligent progress if i get the knock on the door explaining another muslim with an agenda has decided its my families turn to be in the news - theres a lot of anger everywhere, and like Ubercat said, its easy to poke fun at those demanding extreme justice, but what does anyone else suggest - because multiculturism is so far down the toilet its not going to be about sitting around a table discussing who everyone can be appeased

+1.
I share the same view. If it were my family in the frame, I'd want vengeance. The problem when it's someone else is that we are distanced from the problem and less passionate. The regular attacks on civilians means that the well of tolerance is drying up. I want to see Muslims being seen to oppose those who "act in their name". Mere words are not enough any more.

.

[MikeGER]

on Munich

when i analyse what's available in the news about the situation, including some phone interviews of witnesses done by media ... the way its was done, it doesn't sound all to typical islamistic, and there is no "snackbar"-shouting, no symbols, no deathwish in final confrontion with the reaction forces   ... it is still possible, even more likely atm,  that it is a single or two man rightwing nutjob show with emphasis on nutjob or a one (up to three) band of Columbine-"we are sick of this world that all hated us"-maniacs...
one phone witness spoke about a SantaClaus costume in use in side the mall (Go Figure! ...like Postal or such) , later a guy showed up in front of the McD, later a guy on the open top floor of a conncted parking structure, ...and taking long distance potshots from there (single hand, no stance, no training visible, more like a gangster in a movie casual scaring of some people) on undiscriminated pedestrian's moving in the farer distance ...  could all be the same person seen by different witnesses, in the different places...
(also its the 5 year aniversery of the right wing amok attack in Norway)           

[Boggit]

Just saw it come across the news here, Mike. More insanity.

Horrible. 8 fatalities, not to mention wounded people.  :'(

The media and police are at pains to suggest it is not Islamist violence, hinting at extreme right wing violence. It doesn't make sense that the extreme right would randomly target people though. They refer to the Anders Breivik case five years ago today as justification, but I think that is unlikely as Breivik's victims were targeted being a group of left wing youth group summer camp, who opposed his political ideals. Here the attacks appear random. If the perps in this case were extreme right then you'd expect them to target on race/political lines. The Breivik suggestion is IMHO a red herring. The MO doesn't make sense.

I suspect that the media and German police are acting in denial as to the usual suspects for this type of atrocity. It reminds me of the initial denial by the police and media after the New Years Eve Koln attacks. I suspect that after a catalogue of "migrant" attacks both sexual and homicidal, this is a weak attempt to calm public reaction to Merkel's "inspired" ::) open door immigration
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35261988

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-crime-munich-idUSKCN1021YZ

[Marty Ward]

If I was betting I'd go with Islamic terrorism.