Oh my...Elite Dangerous:Horizons

[SirAndrewD]

The simple solution is a better crime and punishment system in regards to the player. 

As long as a commander can kill people at will, build up a huge bounty, and then just pay it off or lose it by hopping to another system or just dying once and doing a rebuy, there's not going to be much incentive to hunt griefers en masse, nor is there an incentive for griefers to stop. 

I'm also not sure their argument about their being in the right because Solo/Mobius can effect Open.  The reverse is true as well, and they're gaming the persistent universe as much as anyone. 

Their goal is to get everything merged into Open play, but just from watching some of their streams and seeing their relentless taunting on the FD forums, my feeling is that's really just to shut down escape routes from their griefing. 

FD has to find a happy medium, clearly.  There are actually players like myself that do want to PvP, just in logical or controlled circumstances.  However, with the way PvP functions right now, there's really not a lot of "fun" in it, even if you're on the ganking end.  Being interdicted by a wing of three players with engineered heat weapons and exploding before you can spool your FSD for a high wake escape is really not that entertaining for anyone.

So, yeah, to the original point.  Better crime and punishment, large major faction wide bounties gained from killing commanders that persist through death for a set period and can't be paid off.  Essentially the idea that if you kill players, you're going to be relentlessly hunted in any decent security system by both NPC's and players alike.   This system wouldn't hurt pirates either, as real Pirate Commanders tend to try not to kill their targets, as that simply isn't profitable for them.

Also as much as I think FD hates to admit it, safe zones and possibly PvE tags would also go a long way to uniting everyone back on the Open server.

[Yskonyn]

^this. And Mikeck, SirAndrewD makes some good points in how open would benefit from such a system and then being the only mode of play.
If you want to keep safe you need to stay within controlled space. But IMO its only logical that risk will increase with distance from controlled space.

If there is a good functioning crime and punishment system the gameplay flow will be much better balanced and would warrant a sole open play mode more. At least that's where I stand.

[Kushan]

While I think what SDC do goes beyond mere in game piracy into the realm of just being assholes. I'm not really sure what a good solution is. I don't really want to see some sort of MMO PVP flag. I like that piracy is part of the game, I've even done it a few times myself. As unrealistic as the game already is, I think it would break the immersion if they did that. Kind of like the issue with timed ship transfer vs instant. Even though instant was/would be more convenient to us as players, I think if they had gone that route it would have broken the fiction that they had built up in the game.

One solution would be dedicated groups of players playing cops and robbers with them on a similar scale, another option would be to institute a system like EVE uses; civilized space is defended by AI police (concord in EVE) which will *always* Hunt down an offender. The further you are from civilized space the more lawless it gets.

I think there's already a few groups that are trying to counter groups like SDC. Cant name any off the top of my head but I have heard some names dropped on some Elite podcasts. In a way, things already are more lawless the farther you get from the bubble. Not sure how it is in open, but I have had system security drop in from time to time when I've been interdicted by AI pirates. Out in the middle of no where you literally see no one, so your chances of running into anyone are fairly low. But i'm sure a patient pirate might wait for unsuspecting prey around popular nebula like Witchhead, Bernards Loop, etc. Think I'd like to see a modification of your idea. More system patrols, including military, in systems that have factions, stations, etc. But in those uninhabited systems in the bubble that are completely uninhabited then there might be the occasional, maybe even regular patrols, through the system but not on a standing basis like occupied systems. This would still allow for some piracy within the bubble but with a greater risk. Maybe in those unoccupied systems, if piracy picks up, I'm sure Frontier have a way tracking AI/player deaths, then the system would revert to a high security system for a period, thus forcing those pirates to move on.

Some of this the game might already do, I haven't been inside occupied space for at least two patches. I set off on my exploration expedition, then needed to take a break for a few months because of work.

[Yskonyn]

Solid ideas there.
With AI interdictions you often get friendly police jumping in sooner or later if you're in a system where your reputation with the controlling Faction is cordial or better (ships showing green on your scanner), but this doesn't work with Human players.
If they would have a system where police would respond (perhaps you can hit an emergency call button) you would have a chance of surviving. There just isn't anything a lone trader can do at the moment and forcing players to wing up isn't a great deal either.

At least in a group like Mobius you could, in theory, msg a few mates quickly and have reinforcements inbound quickly enabling you to keep playing in open because you can offset the risks.
But solo players need a form of protection as well.

[Jarhead0331]

What I'd really like to see is the chance for players to join the police, militia or the military, have the opportunity to form wings and go out on patrol. If they spot trouble, they could then call on other players who are members of the police, local militia or military for support. This would be a great way to encourage a useful counter to grievers, while maintaining immersion in the game world.

[bob48]

^That is a great idea, JH.

[Jarhead0331]

^That is a great idea, JH.

Thanks! I see it as being a real way to enhance the game in several respects. First, it would help counteract the griever problem. Second, it would provide another career opportunity for players who are sick of trading, mining, etc. Third, it would further enhance immersion of the universe and provide players with a reason to take pride in the game the world. There could be salaries, bonuses for bounties, rank, medals, access to new and more powerful gear, etc. The possibilities are quite limitless.

[bob48]

That could introduce a whole new perspective and focus into the game. I would certainly go for that rather than play solo, as I do now.

[mikeck]

 That is a great idea. Maybe you could do something to entice people to take part. My recommendation would be to issue them a spacecraft. When you join the police department they issue you a car when you join the Navy and become an aviator the government provides the aircraft. Maybe you could be provided a cobra for use after you're done will you quit you have to return it or you were given the option to purchase it at a lower value.  My recommendation would be to issue them a spacecraft. When you join the police department they issue you a car when you join the Navy and become an aviator the government provides the aircraft. Maybe you could be provided a cobra for use. after you're done or you quit  The service , you have to return it or you would be given the option to purchase it at a lower value.  You would also get paid per kill.

From work experience you have the better spacecraft are issued to you if you would like.  So you go to planet a and join police force. They tell you "head to planet see station five and pick up your cobra".  Then you would get orders such as go patrol system Y."  Closing the bleach the orders would come from a human player who happens to be commanding that area of the police force. He would dispatch you to patrol areas where grievers have been

[undercovergeek]

3 days before someone RPGs a cop gone rogue and starts killing all the police

^ Said with tongue in cheek, it's a great idea JH

[bob48]

Just wondering how easy it would be to form a group that operate from a 'base' station and cooperate - a grog group would be nice.

[Yskonyn]

Well as much as I like JH's idea I see a few problems;

1) the size of the gameworld: how would this cover the whole of civilized space? You would need AI assistance in some form.

2) the game already enables something like this, because people can do what they want. If we now dicide we want to be a space police with a group there is nothing stopping us. The problem, again, is scale.
Even the territory of the 'Bubble' is vast. With a high jumprange ship it will still take you far too long to get somewhere a fight is going on and your assistance is needed pronto.
A few groups are already trying to be police, but their numbers are too small.
You would need to mobilise a group the size of the Fuel Rats or Mobius to have a chance of being even somewhat effective .
The only way I see such a thing work is if the game has a gameplay system for police in place where AI and players work together.

In essence there is nothing holding players back to roleplay a police force right now, but it isn't being done on a bigger scale.
Perhaps an idea to launch a community initiative and run a police service like the fuel rats do for emergency refueling.

And even though UG isn't bein too serious, I do see it as a very real threat to any such initiative. People will indeed mole into the police force unless ED introduces a comprehensive system to manage members in a group.

[Nefaro]

Good and bad of an MOO. Players make you work hard for your money and won't tolerate gifting what they worked for. On the other hand, Vets are always ready to pull the ladder up behind them. You get these Clans that control everything and it makes it difficult for new guys to move up.

But, them's the breaks. MMO is a great self contained microcosm of natural human traits of selfishness and rules of economy. Players will only work if they get money from it (capitalism) but in order to keep the economy from being dominated by a few, Devs need to step in now and then and correct things and make rules to prevent it (regulation)

I smell a paper that I may force my students to write sometime.

It's been written about, regarding MMO economies mirroring the worst in financial & business practices of the world.  Eve Online often being the most infamous topic since it had almost no regulation or moderation.

There have also been player groups created to curtail what they see as injustice from other players, as Jarhead suggested.  But in such open market MMOs, they still have to create their own wealth and pooled resources, so they often end up just being another corporate-like entity, much like those they originally opposed.

[bob48]

Well as much as I like JH's idea I see a few problems;

1) the size of the gameworld: how would this cover the whole of civilized space? You would need AI assistance in some form.

2) the game already enables something like this, because people can do what they want. If we now dicide we want to be a space police with a group there is nothing stopping us. The problem, again, is scale.
Even the territory of the 'Bubble' is vast. With a high jumprange ship it will still take you far too long to get somewhere a fight is going on and your assistance is needed pronto.
A few groups are already trying to be police, but their numbers are too small.
You would need to mobilise a group the size of the Fuel Rats or Mobius to have a chance of being even somewhat effective .
The only way I see such a thing work is if the game has a gameplay system for police in place where AI and players work together.

In essence there is nothing holding players back to roleplay a police force right now, but it isn't being done on a bigger scale.
Perhaps an idea to launch a community initiative and run a police service like the fuel rats do for emergency refueling.

And even though UG isn't bein too serious, I do see it as a very real threat to any such initiative. People will indeed mole into the police force unless ED introduces a comprehensive system to manage members in a group.

Good points, indeed.

[Jarhead0331]

Well as much as I like JH's idea I see a few problems;

1) the size of the gameworld: how would this cover the whole of civilized space? You would need AI assistance in some form.

2) the game already enables something like this, because people can do what they want. If we now dicide we want to be a space police with a group there is nothing stopping us. The problem, again, is scale.
Even the territory of the 'Bubble' is vast. With a high jumprange ship it will still take you far too long to get somewhere a fight is going on and your assistance is needed pronto.
A few groups are already trying to be police, but their numbers are too small.
You would need to mobilise a group the size of the Fuel Rats or Mobius to have a chance of being even somewhat effective .
The only way I see such a thing work is if the game has a gameplay system for police in place where AI and players work together.

In essence there is nothing holding players back to roleplay a police force right now, but it isn't being done on a bigger scale.
Perhaps an idea to launch a community initiative and run a police service like the fuel rats do for emergency refueling.

And even though UG isn't bein too serious, I do see it as a very real threat to any such initiative. People will indeed mole into the police force unless ED introduces a comprehensive system to manage members in a group.

The thing holding players back is incentive. There is no reason to role play police because there is no reward. No promotion system, no awards or medals, and no authority granted by the game world. Again, what I envision would be a fully realized career path for law enforcement, and of course it would be supplemented by AI patrols. But it would be great if players could enlist, have their ships and gear provided in one form or another and have actual authority to interdict, Scan and enforce the laws.