Jerry Sandusky on trial

[mirth]

There's something to be said for collective punishment, so that in the future people are less likely to tolerate (or become) enablers of criminal behavior.

That said, there's also something to be said for staying in your jurisdiction.  At what point have you so exceeded your mandate as to have it be irrelevant?

In the case of the NCAA, the mandate has been irrelevant for a long time. At least in this situation they could do some measure of good, imho.

[Gusington]

The Dad part of me sees collective punishment as a good idea because of the crimes.

The regular guy part of me finds it inconceivable that so many people could be in on those crimes and:

a. think it's ok to not go to authorities
b. think that with so many people involved that they could NOT realize that at some point they would all be punished

[bayonetbrant]

At least in this situation they could do some measure of good, imho.

the problem with over-reaching like this is the attitude it engenders elsewhere in the country, and suddenly you have Congress trying to hook Terry Schiavo back up to a machine, because, dammit someone ought to do something!

Someone did do something: they sent Sandusky away for the rest of his life.
Someone is doing something else: preparing to send away the other Penn St admins (Curley & Schultz) too.

That "someone" is the legal system.  It worked - Sandusky is in jail.

It would've been nice if it had worked sooner - and that's how Curley & Schultz are going to end up in jail.

But there's nothing in this at all that falls under the NCAA.  And just because the legal system didn't give you your preferred outcome doesn't meant that they're wrong.  It also doesn't mean that the NCAA won't over-reach to try to placate the masses like you who think that somehow they should get involved, just because...

That said, I don't think either one of us is going to change the other's mind, so I'm going to make this the last statement from me on this topic, so as not to get drawn into some circular, repetitive argument, and let others have their say, too.

[mirth]

That said, I don't think either one of us is going to change the other's mind, so I'm going to make this the last statement from me on this topic, so as not to get drawn into some circular, repetitive argument, and let others have their say, too.

Agreed. I think you make valid points, but I'm not going to feel bad at all if the NCAA does give Penn State the death penalty.

[Gusington]

^Nice, clear-headed summary Brant. I personally don't think the NCAA should get involved and that is related to why I think if the football program can be pruned and saved, it should be.

[LongBlade]

At least in this situation they could do some measure of good, imho.

the problem with over-reaching like this is the attitude it engenders elsewhere in the country, and suddenly you have Congress trying to hook Terry Schiavo back up to a machine, because, dammit someone ought to do something!

Someone did do something: they sent Sandusky away for the rest of his life.
Someone is doing something else: preparing to send away the other Penn St admins (Curley & Schultz) too.

That "someone" is the legal system.  It worked - Sandusky is in jail.

It would've been nice if it had worked sooner - and that's how Curley & Schultz are going to end up in jail.

But there's nothing in this at all that falls under the NCAA.  And just because the legal system didn't give you your preferred outcome doesn't meant that they're wrong.  It also doesn't mean that the NCAA won't over-reach to try to placate the masses like you who think that somehow they should get involved, just because...

That said, I don't think either one of us is going to change the other's mind, so I'm going to make this the last statement from me on this topic, so as not to get drawn into some circular, repetitive argument, and let others have their say, too.

Brant is correct - the good news is that the system is working.

That it took so long to uncover is both good and bad. It's bad in that it took so long - there does appear to have been a cover up. The cover up is cultural. Putting the priority of a winning team over the welfare of kids. But in the end justice will be served. Delayed, perhaps, but served.

The other good news is that we don't have a justice system that is trying to anticipate these crimes. The 4th amendment may be suspended if someone misreads a post on the internet, but the good news is that they aren't conducting unreasonable searches in a quest to uncover real crimes. That there is an ironic juxtaposition in generating millions of false positive hits on the internet but can allow this kind of horrible crime to be covered up for decades is a shame, but blame should rest on the people doing the cover up, not the system(s) or the law.

[LongBlade]

^Nice, clear-headed summary Brant. I personally don't think the NCAA should get involved and that is related to why I think if the football program can be pruned and saved, it should be.

The NCAA is in the business of trying to manage sports programs for kids in college. It is not a criminal investigative service.

Blame the idiots who did the cover up. That they were overzealous is obvious, but that's not really anyone's fault but their own.

[Gusington]

^Totally agree. The trouble with that is tracking how far into PA government and Penn State administration the cover-up goes.

[LongBlade]

^Totally agree. The trouble with that is tracking how far into PA government and Penn State administration the cover-up goes.

That is what good detectives are for. And God bless them as they go after the guilty.

[mirth]

^Nice, clear-headed summary Brant. I personally don't think the NCAA should get involved and that is related to why I think if the football program can be pruned and saved, it should be.

The NCAA is in the business of trying to manage sports programs for kids in college. It is not a criminal investigative service.

It doesn't have to be criminal investigation service. The investigation has been done for them and they aren't assigning criminal penalties in any case. They are dealing with an institutional cover up of child rape by officials at a school within the NCAA's governance.

[LongBlade]

^Nice, clear-headed summary Brant. I personally don't think the NCAA should get involved and that is related to why I think if the football program can be pruned and saved, it should be.

The NCAA is in the business of trying to manage sports programs for kids in college. It is not a criminal investigative service.

It doesn't have to be criminal investigation service. The investigation has been done for them and they aren't assigning criminal penalties in any case. They are dealing with an institutional cover up of child rape by officials at school within the NCAA's governance.

Well, you're getting well beyond what I have any interest in knowing. I have no clue what the NCAA is or is not tasked to look into. All I know is that at some point real law enforcement folks were rightfully called in.

[Gusington]

^And disappeared, in the case of the county (or was it state?) DA.

[mirth]

^Nice, clear-headed summary Brant. I personally don't think the NCAA should get involved and that is related to why I think if the football program can be pruned and saved, it should be.

The NCAA is in the business of trying to manage sports programs for kids in college. It is not a criminal investigative service.

It doesn't have to be criminal investigation service. The investigation has been done for them and they aren't assigning criminal penalties in any case. They are dealing with an institutional cover up of child rape by officials at school within the NCAA's governance.

Well, you're getting well beyond what I have any interest in knowing. I have no clue what the NCAA is or is not tasked to look into. All I know is that at some point real law enforcement folks were rightfully called in.

I am certainly glad that it is being dealt with through the legal system and I hope that anyone involved in the cover up feels the full weight of the law. I also think it is within the NCAA's purview to address the Penn State situation with any methods at it's disposal.

[bayonetbrant]

another article re: the ncaa

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/andy_staples/07/02/penn-state-jerry-sandusky-ncaa/index.html

[LongBlade]

another article re: the ncaa

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/andy_staples/07/02/penn-state-jerry-sandusky-ncaa/index.html

He makes a good point regarding the NCAA: it isn't their job to enforce criminal law.

However, a few paragraphs further down I see this (emphasis added):

When arguing with NCAA Death Penalty advocates on Twitter, a common refrain from them is that if the NCAA doesn't punish Penn State's football program, no one will learn the proper lesson from this case. Canceling football games and revoking scholarships will do nothing to teach the necessary lesson -- which is that if a man doesn't exercise human decency and do the right thing to protect those who can't protect themselves, then he'll be fired and could go to jail.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/andy_staples/07/02/penn-state-jerry-sandusky-ncaa/index.html

On that point I'm not sure I agree. The alleged crimes were covered up because of a zealousness to protect the sports team. (Correct me if I'm wrong here).

If that's the case, there is no better way for the NCAA to indicate that a wrong has been committed than to crush the very thing the (alleged) crimes were trying to protect. Fanaticism in sports is no virtue when it leads to criminal activity.

The NCAA is well positioned to deliver that message.