Star Wars: The Last Jedi

[mirth]

I enjoyed the movie, and despite the fanboys' moping about it, I thought it was a fun addition to the series.

You bitched and bitched about Suicide Squad, but you give this a pass  ::)

[Michael Dorosh]

One doesn't have to be a "fanboy" to be able to detect plot holes, over-used tropes, poor characterization, disregard of canon, and general lack of storytelling ability. I actually enjoyed Lucas' prequel trilogy despite the occasional incoherence (I still don't understand the whole handmaiden/queen deception thing or why it was necessary) and awful dialogue. At least the characters all had reasonable motivation and interesting things to do.

This was just a hot mess.

I have no issue with the First Order storyline either. They always have the option to do additional works (novels, etc.) to describe the rise of the Order, but if it's not essential to the story they want to tell, I don't need to sit through another Star Wars political lecture to learn about it. I didn't need to know the back story of the Empire in order to enjoy the first film in 1977. Learning it over the course of the prequels was actually pretty cool.

[bayonetbrant]

I enjoyed the movie, and despite the fanboys' moping about it, I thought it was a fun addition to the series.

You bitched and bitched about Suicide Squad, but you give this a pass  ::)

Because my expectations were very different for Suicide Squad.  That was a first on-screen appearance for characters that had never had their stories told on-screen and had decades of development underneath them.  And in the case of Harley Quinn, were never a significant part of the franchise that they should've even been in the movie in the first place.

Yes there were decades of stories for the Star Wars characters, but those all got jettisoned when Disney bought them.  And I was pissed about that too, but at this point they aren't ever going to make an Heir to the Empire series, so there's no point bitching about it.

As to the 'continuity' for Rey, Finn, Poe, etc - it doesn't exist.  It's not like they're betraying characters that all those years of development under them.

The continuity for Luke/Leia - to me, at least - was broken when Disney killed their previous continuity, so at this point, I don't really expect anything consistent and it doesn't bother me when it doesn't exist.  I didn't like Luke's vindictiveness toward the Jedi, but again, we don't have years and years of post-Ep VI Luke continuity to follow up on.

The other dumb shit that I've seen people complain about the most, like the unnecessary Finn-and-Rose-detour-thru-a-casino-planet, was entertaining, but really showed how fractured the rebel chain of command is.  I didn't buy emo-Laura-Dern as a credible battlefield commander, but the idea that a commander would be so close-hold on her plans, to the detriment of the rest of the organization?  Seen that all over the place.  Phasma was a useless character, but hey, they wanted to put Gwendoline Christie in a movie, so let 'em.  Was Phasma under-used for the fact that they created a special set of armor and a particular character for her?  Sure.  But so what - she got to be in a pair of Star Wars movies, so good for her.

I'm not expressing much of this very well, and I don't feel like going back and re-editing to try to make it make sense.

My bitching about Suicide Squad was that they completely ignored key components of well-established characters in their first ever appearance on-screen.
My expectations for Star Wars are way lower because I don't see these as well-established characters anymore, since they killed the continuity of the characters as I knew them over the past 20-odd years.  So I don't expect them to conform to anything.

[mirth]

I never accepted the Extended Universe as canon. Lucas always made it very clear that while he didn't mind people playing in the universe, it was his creation and all that mattered were the movies.

I know you're a Zahn fanboy, but the EU books were middling at best. 95% of them were complete garbage and undermined the characters and the SW universe. Unfortunately, this latest movie has the quality of an EU novel when it comes to plot and character.

[undercovergeek]

I enjoyed the movie, and despite the fanboys' moping about it, I thought it was a fun addition to the series.

You bitched and bitched about Suicide Squad, but you give this a pass  ::)

Because my expectations were very different for Suicide Squad.  That was a first on-screen appearance for characters that had never had their stories told on-screen and had decades of development underneath them.  And in the case of Harley Quinn, were never a significant part of the franchise that they should've even been in the movie in the first place.

Yes there were decades of stories for the Star Wars characters, but those all got jettisoned when Disney bought them.  And I was pissed about that too, but at this point they aren't ever going to make an Heir to the Empire series, so there's no point bitching about it.

As to the 'continuity' for Rey, Finn, Poe, etc - it doesn't exist.  It's not like they're betraying characters that all those years of development under them.

The continuity for Luke/Leia - to me, at least - was broken when Disney killed their previous continuity, so at this point, I don't really expect anything consistent and it doesn't bother me when it doesn't exist.  I didn't like Luke's vindictiveness toward the Jedi, but again, we don't have years and years of post-Ep VI Luke continuity to follow up on.

The other dumb shit that I've seen people complain about the most, like the unnecessary Finn-and-Rose-detour-thru-a-casino-planet, was entertaining, but really showed how fractured the rebel chain of command is.  I didn't buy emo-Laura-Dern as a credible battlefield commander, but the idea that a commander would be so close-hold on her plans, to the detriment of the rest of the organization?  Seen that all over the place.  Phasma was a useless character, but hey, they wanted to put Gwendoline Christie in a movie, so let 'em.  Was Phasma under-used for the fact that they created a special set of armor and a particular character for her?  Sure.  But so what - she got to be in a pair of Star Wars movies, so good for her.

I'm not expressing much of this very well, and I don't feel like going back and re-editing to try to make it make sense.

My bitching about Suicide Squad was that they completely ignored key components of well-established characters in their first ever appearance on-screen.
My expectations for Star Wars are way lower because I don't see these as well-established characters anymore, since they killed the continuity of the characters as I knew them over the past 20-odd years.  So I don't expect them to conform to anything.

All of these things

[mirth]

Troll Brant with Suicide Squad - achievement unlocked.

[bayonetbrant]

I know you're a Zahn fanboy, but the EU books were middling at best. 95% of them were complete garbage and undermined the characters and the SW universe.

I was a fan of Heir to the Empire, not everything else from the original extended continuity.  I like the art on the first of the 2 Dark Empire comic series, but Dark Empire II was pretty crap, as was most anything after that.

[bayonetbrant]

Troll Brant with Suicide Squad - achievement unlocked.

go shovel a blizzard

[Michael Dorosh]

The other dumb shit that I've seen people complain about the most, like the unnecessary Finn-and-Rose-detour-thru-a-casino-planet, was entertaining, but really showed how fractured the rebel chain of command is.  I didn't buy emo-Laura-Dern as a credible battlefield commander, but the idea that a commander would be so close-hold on her plans, to the detriment of the rest of the organization?  Seen that all over the place.  Phasma was a useless character, but hey, they wanted to put Gwendoline Christie in a movie, so let 'em.  Was Phasma under-used for the fact that they created a special set of armor and a particular character for her?  Sure.  But so what - she got to be in a pair of Star Wars movies, so good for her.

You talk about other people being "fanboys" but you've done the classic fanboy review - the only details you've discussed are negative details and you've not stated a single thing you actually liked.

So what did you actually like about the film? You never said.

What I get from this is that you think it's a bad movie, but you like it anyway. Fair enough, I like plenty of bad movies.

[Jarhead0331]

This movie absolutely blew. I'm not sure how any true Star Wars fan could feel otherwise. I mean really, special effects aside, the movie is utter garbage. 

[mirth]

This movie absolutely blew. I'm not sure how any true Star Wars fan could feel otherwise. I mean really, special effects aside, the movie is utter garbage. 

Increasingly, this is how I feel about it. I really tried to like it, but it was not good.

I've only seen it the one time so maybe my opinion will change after additional viewings, but I doubt it.

[Centurion40]

Yeah, I'll see it again too. I have mixed feelings about it, but I loved that puppet's review.

[bayonetbrant]

You talk about other people being "fanboys" but you've done the classic fanboy review - the only details you've discussed are negative details and you've not stated a single thing you actually liked.

Fair point.

I liked that Snoke's guards actually seemed to be worthy fighters and not just a bunch of ceremonial statues
I liked that Snoke's death came out of nowhere compared to the big showdown-at-the-end in Ep VI
I didn't bother me that Luke didn't hold the Jedi to the same level of veneration that everyone else did in the prequels
I like the seed of rebellion that Finn and Rose planted in the stablekids and I enjoyed the casino hijinks
I like that Poe is a trigger-happy wingnut and acts very impulsively, because none of us know anyone like that, do we?
I thought the force-connection scenes w/ Kylo and Rey seemed a bit...  forced (yes, I went there) but I understand how they helped move the story some
I enjoyed some of the out-of-nowhere quips, like when Rey tells Luke "I've seen your daily routine..."
I like that many of the characters are acting on fist impulse and not working through some methodical life plan that a scriptwriter has clearly laid out for them.  That unpredictability probably bothers a lot of people, but I'm fine w/ it.
I don't believe that Rey's parents were necessarily a bunch of junk-traders when it's easy enough for Kylo to lie to her in manipulating her to attaching herself to him.  Besides, how would he know either way?
All in all, I was entertained, and it didn't feel like anyone was really "breaking" the Star Wars universe, which is a common criticism I've heard from others.  It's not necessarily the story *I* would tell, but I'm also not the film-maker, so it's not really my say :)

[bayonetbrant]

Yeah, I'll see it again too. I have mixed feelings about it, but I loved that puppet's review.

I took Bayonet Jr to see it on Friday.  Mrs B and I are going to see it either tomorrow or Thursday.  I think 2-1/2 hours would be taxing Bayonette's attention span.

[mirth]

How old is she now?