Cyberpunk 2077 - from Witcher devs

[al_infierno]

^ Out of curiosity, is your experience in #2 with larger corporations with lots of revenue?  My understanding is that larger firms like Microsoft, VMware, etc. have a pretty firm 9-5 setup, with certain places having a culture of staying long hours due to crunch or saving face or whatever.  Admittedly I've been lucky to work at multiple companies with something resembling a work-life balance, and I'm not a dev myself, so my perspective is obviously biased, but I've also worked places where the devs are basically expected to work 10-12 hour days even if there's nothing for them to do.  It baffles me that anyone would want to be in such an environment when there are competitors who can offer better.

[Jarhead0331]

This video has some good updated info.

The delay seems to be due to problems with the way the game is running on current gen consoles. It is totally ready to go for PC and next gen consoles. I don't see why they can't release early for PC and release on consoles when it's ready. This is very common across the industry.

[WYBaugh]

https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/28/21538525/cyberpunk-2077-cd-projekt-red-death-threats-game-delay

The game has been delayed three times from its original April 16th release date. And reports have been swirling about toxic working conditions at the studio, which went back on its word in late September when it instituted mandatory overtime, known in the industry as crunch, to get the game over the finish line.

There are also legitimate grievances around communication of the delay, with the studio as recently as yesterday telling fans on Twitter that the game would release on schedule. Bloomberg's Jason Schreier reported yesterday that the most recent delay, which means CD Projekt Red developers will likely be working another three weeks of grueling hours to finish the game's "day 0" launch patch, was announced to the staff at the same time as it went out on Twitter. Schreier also reports some of the studio's employees are clocking 100-hour weeks.

As someone in the comments wrote, pressuring devs to work 'crunch time' hours for extended periods of time causes less efficiency and more errors.  Yes, you can do it in the short term.  Long term, it's not going to work.

Yes, I'm a developer and I'm older and have been through times similar to this.  It is not something that can be sustained.

[Gusington]

'Death threats'...there are some insane people out there.

[Jarhead0331]

'Death threats'...there are some insane people out there.

Reminds me of No Man's Sky...same thing happened when it was delayed. People went ape$hit.

I think it is hilarious that people are going wild because they took a vacation to coincide with release. Who the hell takes a vacation to play a video game?  :DD

[Gusington]

I'm thinking there are a lot of people alone, on permanent vacation, and for some...this game is all they got. Sounds pathetic and sad, but I think it's probably true.

[Yskonyn]

(...) Suffice it to say, my opinion of the younger generation is based upon my own observations across several industries. I'm comfortable making the conclusion based on that criteria that seems to be pretty empirical, even if it may be from a relatively small sampling.

Additionally, I just do not see the problem with working long hours. Welcome to my life. I've been a lawyer for 20 years and it is only recently that I've been able to begin making my own schedule. Previously, if I was not at my desk by 9:00a.m. on the button, or if I left a second before 9:00 p.m., I could be threatened with losing a bonus or losing my job. I'm hard pressed to imagine that the environment in a game developer's office is more hostile than what one is likely to find within the institutional setting of a major law firm. Never once did I consider complaining or going to the press to act as some harbinger of change. I was grateful to have a job, and having come from the military, I was happy to be alive and in relative comfort. Maybe it's all just a matter of perspective.

I am with Jarhead on this. My experience in the cockpit is that younger people tend to nag and whine a lot more about working hours, bad (in their opinion) scheduling, etc. It seems like they (more than the older guard, in my opinion anyway) are always thinking the 'company is out to get them' .

That, of course, doesn't mean all younger people are like this. But I do tend to agree that in relation to the people with more life experience there tends to be a larger amount of whiners around in the younger echelons. Just my opinion, nothing more.

We can discuss the why's at length, but this thread is not the place for it.

[Tpek]

@al, I did not work in Microsoft or a large software house like that, but things differ in each country. My longest running job was working in the software development section of a very large banking firm,
and even there, despite being a "family accommodating" workplace, the standard hours were more like the "crunch time" than 9-17 (in fact the minimum hours I had to work in a day were over 9, not including an unpaid 30 minutes lunch break).
And there were times when the workday lasted almost 24 hours for me (and I've had co-workers who had almost 48).

For those working in smaller companies (especially startups) doing 20+ hours a day for a period of time is pretty much normal.

@Yskonyn, old people might have less trouble to work additional hours.
However they also have less reasons to get back home. Less friends to see, less hobby/entertainment things to do, no young kids that need caring.
Someone in their 20's or 30's has a lot more responsibility to their family than someone in their 60's, 70's or even 50's.

[Jarhead0331]

Wow....December 10 might slide too. Seems like they are already signaling that possibility.

[Grim.Reaper]

February 2021 here we come:)

[al_infierno]

For those working in smaller companies (especially startups) doing 20+ hours a day for a period of time is pretty much normal.

This is what I was getting at; CDPR does not strike me as a "startup" or even a "smaller" company, even though they are technically "indie."  Between the success of the Witcher games and GOG, they seem to be in a much stronger market position than your typical tech startup that has devs working the jobs of 3 people out of necessity.  Of course, I don't know as I've never worked at CDPR  :-"

[Grim.Reaper]

It's funny, being a former developer myself, although I worked many hours, I don't recall ever being "forced" to work extra hours.  Quite the opposite, I enjoyed developing software so much I wanted to work extra hours.  I knew what my workload was and what I needed to do and I never had to be asked to work late or weekends.....did it because I enjoyed it and I felt pride in completing my work.  Creating new software was exciting and a fun challenge for me and really never felt like "work".  More than once I worked on major holidays such as Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's Day.....and I had to never be asked, nor did I think anything negative about my employer.

Certainly we live in different times and each person is entitled to their feelings on this matter, but I personally can't relate as it was always a "normal" part of my career and I don't regret any of it.

[jamus34]

I'm torn here. On one hand when you have a big project that needs to get done then yeah, you get all hands and do the work. That said I've seen managers say that (usually set up for trade shows in my instance) and then the immediately leave.

On the other hand what about the game mills that just churn out titles. You get done with one game at EA or Activision working 80+ hour weeks and then you either get laid off or immediately put on the next project or support DLC. So you will either have a never ending string of 80 hour workweeks or unemployment.

Personally I feel 4 weeks of forced extended working hours is about the limit an average person can do. After that you start seeing critical mistakes being made, not maliciously, that slow the project down even more. I know there are some people who working is there life and can deal with it. But a good majority of people need downtime to unwind.

[Grim.Reaper]

Because of fearing the competition with Cyberpunk, some games who originally were going to release in December have pushed back their releases into 2021.....Everspace 2 and Path of Exile Expansion.  Hopefully Cyberpunk does not end up delaying again or could further chase away games slated in early 2021.....could be a constant moving target for other game companies.

[Jarhead0331]

Just about one week to go before release. I finally pre-ordered. I don't think CD Projekt Red could survive another delay of this at this point. I'm confident they will release on schedule now.

I haven't been this excited about a release since...since...well, I really don't know when. This game looks like it is going to kick ass and if it is half as engrossing as the Witcher 3, it is sure to be another classic. I hope it is supported and expanded with DLC.

Counting the minutes.