School shooting in Florida

[Steelgrave]

^That is a startling admission!

[mirth]

^That is a startling admission!

Quite

[Steelgrave]

http://wncn.com/2018/02/26/trump-says-he-would-have-confronted-florida-shooter/

Next up: A shirtless Trump riding a tiger.

[mirth]

http://wncn.com/2018/02/26/trump-says-he-would-have-confronted-florida-shooter/

Next up: A shirtless Trump riding a tiger.

[Gusington]

Now I know we're doomed.

I hear what Airboy and Steelie are saying.

We just can't count on the arming of teachers to be fool proof. And to be perfectly honest if we can't count on officers who are specifically trained to counter this exact situation - then I am at a loss.

[bbmike]

I'm beginning to think I might have drank less during a Hilly presidency.

[mirth]

^Exactly

[bbmike]

:DD :DD :DD :DD :DD :DD :DD :DD :DD :DD :DD :DD

http://wncn.com/2018/02/26/trump-says-he-would-have-confronted-florida-shooter/

Not really as funny as when you read another source on this. And it highlights how information is skewed to fit someone's narrative. This is why I get news from multiple sources.

From the article:

"I really believe I'd run in there even if I didn't have a weapon," the president told a group of state governors gathered at the White House.
Mr Trump also said it was "disgusting" that officers reportedly did not confront the suspect on 14 February.
The massacre was the second-deadliest shooting at a US school.
"I think most of the people in this room would have done that, too," said the US president on Monday of his assertion that he would have rushed into the school.
He added: "You never know until you're tested."

[bayonetbrant]

I read the whole thing.

He's completely daft.

He would've tripped over his bone spurs in the parking lot, landed with his tongue on someone's mom, and blamed it all on CNN.

[bbmike]

[Nefaro]

I don't think it's an issue of basic firearms training or not, I think that the cop in question let his adverse situation training skills atrophy during the years he was a school resource officer. Day-in and day-out he was probably doing nothing more than greeting kids and giving talks with the occasional hallway fight to break up. When the moment came he locked up in confusion and doubt.

This is my main concern with arming teachers. To be effective in a crisis they would need to constantly challenge their own fight-or-flight instincts through some kind of semi-monthly simulation training similar to what is offered to soldiers and cops on the beat- training that the school officer had also probably neglected. If we have armed teachers they need to be more like air marshals than regular educators who happen to be armed.

An additional concern for me would be that teachers would then be judged - much like this officer was - with their lack of action when in fact there may be quite a few teachers that actually don't want to shoot people.

You know - it is a thing - some people just don't want to shoot people. Even if those people are shooting people. It's not in everyone's DNA.

That's their perogative to do or not do.  However, it's better to have something and not need it than require something and not have it.  When you're cornered by an armed nut.

I had someone go complete emotional response to some teachers being allowed to arm themselves in my state.  He acted as if the teachers were all just gonna be having pistol showdowns in the hallways, at high noon.   ::)  I wasn't terribly surprised, as his political views are almost always based on emotional reaction.  After the knee-jerking eventually cools down, and I've had enough liquor, I'll try injecting some calm logic into a debate. 

Until then, it's apparent that some more.. impulsive.. people have been led to believe that having a gun convinces people to go on murder sprees.  Which is ridiculous.  I blame the misinformation and misunderstandings on the sensationalist media, per usual.  Listening to that guy was a perfect example of how effective they can be when taken at face value.

[JasonPratt]

http://wncn.com/2018/02/26/trump-says-he-would-have-confronted-florida-shooter/

Next up: A shirtless Trump riding a tiger.

Could've been: a shirtless Hilary riding a tiger.

YOUR VOMITCOM HAS NEVER FELT SO INADEQUATE!

[JasonPratt]

I blame the misinformation and misunderstandings on the sensationalist media, per usual.  Listening to that guy was a perfect example of how effective they can be when taken at face value.

Would this person think Trump is-or-could-be literally Hitler, and also that all firepower should be immediately confiscated by and restricted to the federal government?

[Zulu1966]

:DD :DD :DD :DD :DD :DD :DD :DD :DD :DD :DD :DD

http://wncn.com/2018/02/26/trump-says-he-would-have-confronted-florida-shooter/

Not really as funny as when you read another source on this. And it highlights how information is skewed to fit someone's narrative. This is why I get news from multiple sources.

From the article:

"I really believe I'd run in there even if I didn't have a weapon," the president told a group of state governors gathered at the White House.
Mr Trump also said it was "disgusting" that officers reportedly did not confront the suspect on 14 February.
The massacre was the second-deadliest shooting at a US school.
"I think most of the people in this room would have done that, too," said the US president on Monday of his assertion that he would have rushed into the school.
He added: "You never know until you're tested."

It's not really about the source or the full text. It's just that anyone who said that or something similar as to how they think they would have reacted in similar circumstances would naturally be perceived as a dick. Trump is a dick but if Mickey mouse had said that I would have thought him a dick.

Personally I think most people in that room would not have done that. Trump most especially not. It takes a special breed of man/woman to run towards gunfire armed or not and I doubt outside of his secret service agents there were many in the room who were of that ilk.

[JudgeDredd]

I don't think it's an issue of basic firearms training or not, I think that the cop in question let his adverse situation training skills atrophy during the years he was a school resource officer. Day-in and day-out he was probably doing nothing more than greeting kids and giving talks with the occasional hallway fight to break up. When the moment came he locked up in confusion and doubt.

This is my main concern with arming teachers. To be effective in a crisis they would need to constantly challenge their own fight-or-flight instincts through some kind of semi-monthly simulation training similar to what is offered to soldiers and cops on the beat- training that the school officer had also probably neglected. If we have armed teachers they need to be more like air marshals than regular educators who happen to be armed.

An additional concern for me would be that teachers would then be judged - much like this officer was - with their lack of action when in fact there may be quite a few teachers that actually don't want to shoot people.

You know - it is a thing - some people just don't want to shoot people. Even if those people are shooting people. It's not in everyone's DNA.

^ I agree that some people will not pull the trigger on another human being.  But I think that the odds increase when you are protecting others.

All of the bills make it voluntary, with a lot of training and a psyc check for a teacher to be armed in school.  So my guess is the ones who choose to take the training are more likely to be able to pull the trigger.

All I can say as a person in a sticky note "gun free zone," please give the teachers the choice to adequately defend themselves and others.  Rational training, rational psyc evaluation, and give us the option.

If my school gave us the option, I would buy a handgun and carry it to work.  I don't need it at home (I prefer shotguns and have shot 10,000 rounds through several of mine).

Sorry airboy but you mentioned psyc test there so I'll follow with this. Isn't the main issue about the types of people who are being able to get guns and therefore gun control is seen as the solution as opposed to banning their sale? This guy was brought to the attention of relative authorities who might have seen some warning signs.

What happens when a teacher loses it? It can be a very stressful job...some smart ass kids taking the piss out some teacher who can't control the class as other teachers might. So he had a psyc test 6 months ago. 2 months ago. last week. he missed his last test...and he snaps. What then? Is that the next story?

What about kids who decide they're going to carry for their safety? Against a pupil or even a teacher who's showing signs of losing it?

I'm not at all convinced giving teachers weapons is the answer - not that I need to be convinced being a Brit - I'm not preaching - just looking from the outside in


The rest isn't just for airboy - it's discussion in general...

I'll concede that getting rid of guns is not going to stop bad things happening. But please at least consider conceding that more guns is not the answer.

The only thing to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun is bullshit. Sure, it's harder to stop a guy with a gun if you don't have one - but it's not the only thing that can stop a shooter.

Can I ask the Americans here - are you not somehow saddened (ashamed maybe?) that your kids are going to school and having to be taught how to survive a rogue shooter coming into the school? What do you think that does to a kids head?

Kids need to be protected from that shit - and that doesn't mean arming teachers. More security measures around schools perhaps? What are the security measures like around school? Are there security gates to go through? Obviously there's guards - how many guards? Is more guards an answer? What about fencing? Did this guy just walk in? Were there any security measures at that school? Is there more that could be done before you start putting weapons in the classroom? Isn't that as knee jerk as "ban guns"?