Author Topic: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020  (Read 9724 times)

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Offline Grim.Reaper

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Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« on: October 19, 2019, 07:06:57 AM »
Pete D. thankfully mentioned this in the Crusader Kings II thread, thought might as well start its own thread....I had no idea it was coming.  I did find some details from RPS on possible stuff.

https://www.crusaderkings.com/news/an-heir-is-born

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1158310/Crusader_Kings_III/

1. It’s out in 2020.
After more than four years in development, there’s still a lot of work to be done on Crusader Kings 3, and while Paradox are confident in pinning it to 2020, my intuition is that a release before summer would be a surprise. According to the designers I spoke to, CK3 already “far surpasses” the range of features CK2 had on day one, and already covers content from many of its predecessor’s DLC (for example, the 867AD start date from Old Gods). Still, expect “depth rather than breadth” – I get the feeling Paradox want to make a statement with the level of polish at launch, rather than recreating seven years of CK2 expansions.

2. It’s easier to play than Crusader Kings 2. Sort of.
Game director Henrik Fåhraeus says Paradox wanted to make a sequel that “should be more approachable, easier to get into,” than CK2, but that they also understood this clearly isn’t the main concern for series fans. Rest assured: Crusader Kings 3 looks anything but simplified. Still, a lot of time and money has been poured into a more user-friendly UI, and it shows. There are tooltips everywhere, and information seems less buried in menus and secret-feeling windows. For new players, an inobtrusive “suggestion” window offers information at a glance on what’s possible at any given time – what titles you’re in line for, what wars could you start, who needs marrying off, etc. It’s easy for veterans to ignore, but it’s a useful dashboard. Also, Ireland – long CK2’s “tutorial island” – is now the setting for an official tutorial.

3. You can make a dynasty of giants.
If your CK2 playstyle tended towards creepy medieval person-breeding, you will enjoy Crusader Kings 3. There’s a full genetics system, and a lot of attention paid to transferring characteristics across generations. And it won’t just be your ruler picking up traits and quirks, either – as your dynasty spreads across the world via marriages of convenience, and the family name becomes more storied, you’ll be able to spend your renown on persistent perks for your entire lineage. One of these perks is the ability to boost the retention of congenital traits in your family, meaning if you’re dead set on a breeding program for near-mindless haemophiliac colossi, you’re probably in luck.

4. And you can make them cannibals, with the church’s blessing.
Following on from CK2’s Holy Fury expansion and its experiments with designing religions, dynamic faiths and heresies are going to be a big deal in Crusader Kings 3. Making drastic changes to your kingdom’s religion won’t be without consequence, but if you’re truly committed, it looks like it’ll be possible to make a version of Catholicism where it’s absolutely fine for your dynasty of monstrous titans to gorge themselves in secret, holy cannibal rituals. Sounds reasonable.

5. Being a complete git will be more fun.
Intrigue, arguably not much fun in CK2, has had a bit of a glow-up for Crusader Kings 3. There’s a lot more sneaky stuff to play with, including “hooks” – essentially, owed favours, or dirt that you’ve dug up on opponents – which will allow you to manipulate otherwise untouchable characters. If you catch a rebellious baron doing a rudoe behind the medieval bike sheds, for example, you might be able to blackmail him into a harsher feudal contract. Schemes have also been improved, with plots relying less on amassing hordes of randos up for a crack at a hated rival, and being more about finding crucial co-conspirators.

6. There’s no “Deus Vult”.
In the years since CK2’s release, “Deus Vult” – an eleventh century crusader battlecry – has become a vile meme beloved of racists on the internet. I asked how Paradox’s community team felt about this, and was told emphatically that the words will not appear in Crusader Kings 3. That’s refreshing, but in a game set during a time of conflicts fetishised by modern fascists, it’s the tip of the iceberg. I’ll be writing more about how Paradox are handling the political sensitivities of making a game about the crusades, and how they’re handling the representation of non-European cultures, in the weeks to come.

7. There’s a lot of potential for roleplaying.
While it’s not lost any of its strategy chops, Crusader Kings 3 feels a little more like it’s leaning into its RPG DNA. This is thanks in part to the new animated character portraits (complete with the aforementioned modelled genetics), and the procedurally generated, personality-based string descriptors (“callous maniac”, “bold blackguard”), that appear beneath them. Fåhraeus told me “this is a game about characters, so characters should matter in every single feature” – expect to see your ruler’s character, and that of your rivals, factor heavily into everything from event generation to technological progress.

8. Skill trees
Perhaps most RPG-like of all of Crusader Kings 3’s new features is the addition of actual skill trees, based on the mechanics introduced in 2014’s Way of Life DLC for CK2. At present, it seems there are three branches attached to each basic lifestyle choice, with perks named things like “engineered for destruction”, “living off the land” and “wash your hands”. Roleplaying is further encouraged by a stress mechanic, wherein your character can suffer increasing health impediments should you choose to play wildly against type.

9. Knights are more of a thing.
As well as the named leaders of your armies, fighting forces in Crusader Kings 3 now have actual knights – named characters from your kingdom, who could be landed nobility or courtiers – embedded within them. Apparently, depending on their combat skills, they make a big difference to the way battles play out, although I’ve not seen much of the new combat system yet. Siege weaponry is also now in the game, which is exciting.

10. Crusader Kings 2 is becoming free
As stated at the top, CK3’s announcement has coincided with Crusader Kings 2 being made free to play. However, in a shrewd move by Paradox, this offer will not include the game’s many, many DLCs. Still, it means that players looking to start developing their carousing and son-stabbing skills in advance of CK3 have more reason than ever to jump into what Adam called in his Crusader Kings 2 review, “probably the most human strategy game I’ve ever played”.





« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 07:25:05 AM by Grim.Reaper »

Offline CJReich46

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2019, 07:22:53 AM »
Screenshots look impressive.

" He either fears his fate too much
Or his deserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch
To win or lose it all.”  - James Graham 1st Marquess of Montrose

Offline Barthheart

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2019, 07:42:18 AM »
Quote
6. There’s no “Deus Vult”.
In the years since CK2’s release, “Deus Vult” – an eleventh century crusader battlecry – has become a vile meme beloved of racists on the internet. I asked how Paradox’s community team felt about this, and was told emphatically that the words will not appear in Crusader Kings 3. That’s refreshing, but in a game set during a time of conflicts fetishised by modern fascists, it’s the tip of the iceberg. I’ll be writing more about how Paradox are handling the political sensitivities of making a game about the crusades, and how they’re handling the representation of non-European cultures, in the weeks to come.

Hmmmm….. :-\

Offline Jarhead0331

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2019, 07:43:47 AM »
Oh thank god! No deus vult. Heaven forbid we acknowledge actual history and excite too many modern fascists.  :uglystupid2:
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Offline Huw the Poo

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2019, 08:01:51 AM »
I’ll be writing more about how Paradox are handling the political sensitivities of making a game about the crusades, and how they’re handling the representation of non-European cultures, in the weeks to come.

Oh I just can't wait to read this and be told how to feel about history and video games!  Hooray for not having to think for myself!

Incidentally, I frequent a lot of places on the internet you'd expect to find "vile racists" and I've literally never heard "deus vult" used anywhere.  I'm done with Paradox.

Offline Gusington

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2019, 11:20:00 AM »
^I was just going to type 'where is deus vult used as a slur'?

This thread offends me.
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Offline AchillesLastStand

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2019, 11:48:24 AM »
Well Tencent does own a part of Paradox so not totally in shock.

https://www.polygon.com/2016/5/27/11797712/chinas-tencent-just-bought-a-piece-of-paradox

Love the setting just not the biggest fan of a medieval soap opera.

Offline al_infierno

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2019, 12:32:28 PM »
I'm genuinely surprised none of you guys are familiar with "deus vult" in the alt-right memeing context.  It's pretty much right up there with "remove kebab" at this point so I don't blame PDX for not wanting to include the phrase in the new game.  Is it really a big deal that they don't want to include it?  Not sure that this angry reaction is really warranted.  Nobody is telling you what to think or how to feel -- they just don't want to include two words in the game that have been co-opted by racists.

Also, what does China have to do with this?

We're talking about a game series well known for satanic cults and horse bishops/rulers, and suddenly people are concerned about historical accuracy?   ::)
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 12:36:03 PM by al_infierno »
It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge.  War endures.  As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.  That is the way it was and will be.  That way and not some other way.
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If they made nothing but WWII games, I'd be perfectly content.  Hypothetical matchups from alternate history 1980s, asymmetrical US-bashes-some-3rd world guerillas, or minor wars between Upper Bumblescum and outer Kaboomistan hold no appeal for me.
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I guess it's sort of nice that the word "tactical" seems to refer to some kind of seriousness during your moments of mental clarity.
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Offline Huw the Poo

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2019, 12:39:53 PM »
OK, well, you say you see it everywhere, I say I see it nowhere.  I guess we'll never resolve that one.

Yes, it is a big deal, because once again a game is being altered based on a very small vocal element.  It's cowardly too.  I'm not asking you to agree with me, but if you can't see why that would piss people off then you're mental.

Also, what does China have to do with this?

Seriously?  Because China censors everything, that's why!

Offline al_infierno

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2019, 12:51:16 PM »
OK, well, you say you see it everywhere, I say I see it nowhere.  I guess we'll never resolve that one.

Yes, it is a big deal, because once again a game is being altered based on a very small vocal element.  It's cowardly too.  I'm not asking you to agree with me, but if you can't see why that would piss people off then you're mental.

Also, what does China have to do with this?

Seriously?  Because China censors everything, that's why!

I didn't say it's everywhere, I said it's a real thing that they're addressing.  To be clear, I'm not even agreeing that this is the right move, but I agree with Paradox's overarching reasoning -- which is to take a stand against supporting/enabling racist memers.  I do see why this pisses people off, because they're responding to a vocal minority element. But I have to ask again -- is it really a big deal that they don't include two words in the game?  It's not like they're removing a major mechanic from the game, just two cosmetic words.

And you really think China gives a shit about alt-right memes in a CK2 game?  They're more interested in censoring free speech related to Hong Kong, Tibet, etc.
It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge.  War endures.  As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.  That is the way it was and will be.  That way and not some other way.
- Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian


If they made nothing but WWII games, I'd be perfectly content.  Hypothetical matchups from alternate history 1980s, asymmetrical US-bashes-some-3rd world guerillas, or minor wars between Upper Bumblescum and outer Kaboomistan hold no appeal for me.
- Silent Disapproval Robot


I guess it's sort of nice that the word "tactical" seems to refer to some kind of seriousness during your moments of mental clarity.
- MengJiao

Offline Huw the Poo

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2019, 01:00:55 PM »
I didn't say it's everywhere, I said it's a real thing that they're addressing.

Don't split hairs.  Is it widespread or not?  As I said, I've never seen it used that way, ever, and I visit some pretty damn sleazy parts of the internet regularly.

Quote
To be clear, I'm not even agreeing that this is the right move, but I agree with Paradox's overarching reasoning -- which is to take a stand against supporting/enabling racist memers.

This is actually the main thing we disagree on.  I think it's bloody stupid to say they're enabling racists by including a phrase in a game that some people allegedly "misuse".  That's literally not what enabling means.  You can't have a different opinion on this - you're just completely wrong.

Quote
I do see why this pisses people off, because they're responding to a vocal minority element. But I have to ask again -- is it really a big deal that they don't include two words in the game?

So you see why people are angry, then immediately ask whether it's a big deal?  I don't follow.  But to answer your question anyway (on the offchance it's an honest question) - yes, it is a big deal.

Quote
It's not like they're removing a major mechanic from the game, just two cosmetic words.

How many words have to be removed then?  Five?  Twenty?  A thousand?  An art asset or two?  A DLC's worth of content?  How much is relevant?  It's about what it is, not an absurd oversimplification to a question of quantity.

Quote
And you really think China gives a shit about alt-right memes in a CK2 game?  They're more interested in censoring free speech related to Hong Kong, Tibet, etc.

I don't, no.  But it wasn't me who mentioned China.

Offline Gusington

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2019, 01:13:35 PM »
'Remove kebab'? I really must be getting old, that's new to me too.
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Offline al_infierno

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2019, 01:20:19 PM »
Huw, I think I'm being a bit unclear because we're more on the same page than you think.  To be 100% clear, I'm not saying that having the words "deus vult" in the game is actually an enablement of racists.  I agree that removing that phrase is a bit silly.  But I'm saying that Paradox has a serious problem with enabling a community of racists -- a casual glance through the HOI4 Steam community will show this -- and I think this is a step in the right direction from PDX's management, albeit not at all the right way to do it.  As demonstrated in this thread, it seems to just be getting casual bystanders heated more than having any impact on actual racist memers in the PDX community.

And I can see why people are angry while simultaneously disagreeing that it's a big deal.  And yes, everything I'm saying is 100% in good faith.

As a side note, I doubt anybody would even notice that the phrase is missing from CK3 if PDX hadn't announced it.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 01:26:58 PM by al_infierno »
It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge.  War endures.  As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.  That is the way it was and will be.  That way and not some other way.
- Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian


If they made nothing but WWII games, I'd be perfectly content.  Hypothetical matchups from alternate history 1980s, asymmetrical US-bashes-some-3rd world guerillas, or minor wars between Upper Bumblescum and outer Kaboomistan hold no appeal for me.
- Silent Disapproval Robot


I guess it's sort of nice that the word "tactical" seems to refer to some kind of seriousness during your moments of mental clarity.
- MengJiao

Offline Pete Dero

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2019, 01:39:42 PM »
OK, well, you say you see it everywhere, I say I see it nowhere.  I guess we'll never resolve that one.

https://www.npr.org/2017/09/04/548505783/scholars-say-white-supremacists-chanting-deus-vult-got-history-wrong (full audio included)

DAVIS: (Reading) By using imagined medieval symbols or names drawn from medieval terminology, they create a fantasy of a pure white Europe that bears no relationship to reality. This fantasy not only hurts people in the present, it also distorts the past.

ULABY: Social media teems with homemade videos glorifying a time when heavily armored Christians fought for Europe against swarthy infidels. Racists online have adopted a crusader rallying cry, deus vult. Reductive medieval imagery and language shows up in posts by contemporary Islamophobes.


According to this it is rather wide spread online.

But when a small minority abuse and distort history this can't mean you have to alter that history.

Offline KyzBP

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2019, 01:47:37 PM »
I will be a Day One buyer of this.  I'm pretty excited.  However, I too have never heard "Deus Vult" used by anyone let alone some minuscule racist minority.  I either travel in boring, harmonious circles or this really is just a big nothing burger once again blown out of proportion by the "I need to be a victim" members of society.