War on the Sea coming soon! (from Killerfish Games)

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

I tried the first scenario offered in the single battle settings.  I can't remember what it was called but it had the player controlling a US cruiser and a destroyer and going up against a Japanese cruiser, destroyer and a transport or an oiler (can't remember) at dusk. 

The first time I tried it, the Japanese destroyer was quite aggressive.  It pulled off some high speed zig-zag manoeuvres to throw off my gunners and nailed my cruiser with a spread of torpedoes.  I didn't spot the wakes until the last second and it was too late to try to turn in and comb them.  At first I was actually quite happy and impressed with the AI.  But then I started wondering why I never heard or saw any alerts regarding incoming torpedoes.  I set up a custom mission with destroyers and torpedo bombers and experimented.  Your ships never react to torpedoes at all so you have to take over manual control in order to try to avoid them.  In larger scenarios, it'd be almost impossible to be able to constantly jump around and try to spot incoming fish.

I played around a bit more in order to test the AI and came away very disappointed.  Simply put, there really is no AI at all.  Unless you give a unit specific orders, it won't do anything in terms of avoiding attack, changing course, or switching targets. 

It needs more work.  There might be a good game in there somewhere but the brain-dead AI and the weird design decisions regarding carrier behaviour were more than enough to kill my interest at this point.

[Sir Slash]

 :'(

[Toonces]

If the Steam reviews are hard to use, the forums are even worse.  Man alive, it's like the whole world took a stupid pill and decided to post on the forums.  Are they speaking English, because I can't understand what the hell they're saying.

[MengJiao]

  In some ways the AI isn't so bad.  I assembled a battle off Rendova in April 1943...4 AM, floatplanes on both sides, 4 old Imperial Destroyers versus 3 more modern USN destroyers.  The Jakes spotted the US DDs and the Imperial DDs dropped starshells.  I switched on the radars as the Imperial forces manoeuvered reasonably well, I thought.  Both sides closed and torpedoes went all over the place.  One hit a USN DD and put it out of action.  The other Two US DDs had to charge in to cover the withdrawal of the damaged ship.  Eventually radar and gunfire prevailed and all four Imperial DDs were sunk.  I'll play it from the other side and see what I can do with the Jakes.  Here's an image.  You can see (mountains right to left on the horizon): Rendova, Munda and Kolombangara:

[MengJiao]

You can see (mountains right to left on the horizon): Rendova, Munda and Kolombangara:

  Rendova:

[t4rget]

Hi folks, 'been a long time.

I tested it for a couple of hours.

There's two big issues in my opinion.

1. UX is awful.

I really mean the UX. Not the UI. The UI works fine but the controls are inherited from Cold Waters. Meaning they've been adapted to surface ships, planes, lone units and groups.

In addition, it is all very sequential.
You have click this, then click that, then click again elsewhere.
For example, I haven't been able to move ships before doing the tutorial. It does not work by "click the ship right in the middle of the 3D view screen" to select it and "point it somewhere by a right/left click". No, no, no  #:-) You select it either by the unit roster, either by the tactical/mini map, you can direct it by sliders (sliders... :hide:)or key controls,  you can plot a waypoint and if you want to move a group of units, you can't select them with a nice rectangle. You select them one by one or using the "select all" button, you need a formation or to indicate which unit to follow. That's overly complex. By a lot.

Same thing to fire at a unit. You have to press T(or click the "target" button), click the target (not me please) on the tactical/mini map, open the gun batteries screen (main or secondary), choose the fire dispersal, the ammo eventually, "manual" or "spot" firing eventually too and , finally, click "fire". Well.

Why can't I simply right click on the 3D model and attack it? May be a contextual menu could help me to choose the ammo? Then if i want to refine, I'll go into the guns interfaces. No, you'll follow each step of the firing procedure, Admiral, even if it means cleaning the deck with a toothbrush.  :D

Same thing on the campaign. You need to do the tutorial to figure how to move task forces. Hopefully the tutorial seems to cover everything but when someone really need a tutorial to move units, it means there's something wrong on one end (or both  )

Grasping the game is a true battle against the machine. The real game is this. It really gives the feeling to milk a cow with boxing gloves.

2. Units' AI
They have some but the game seems designed to force the player to babysit each unit. If you have one sub or one surface ship or one plane, yeah, it works. When you have a task force to control, it becomes easily overwhelming and it really comes down to the player's hability to multitask and to keep track of details. It makes the player being the fleet's Admiral, the captain of each ship, the lookout on each surface ship, plane or sub. I guess we're lucky to not check the oil levels.

The game doesn't put the player in the Pacha's role. I really enjoy being able to control everything (almost). I don't enjoy to be forced to control everything(almost).


That's really the two main issues with the game for me. I haven't assessed enemy units' AI.


However there is also some real good things. Planes' dogfights or ship attacks are really cool once you get used a bit on how manouver units. Ship impunity zone is modelled through the use of armors and angles, damage model is really interesting, formations are a really cool feature(and a necessity tbh) and varied, you can control from a single plane or sub to a carrier task force, there is single missions, campaigns, rooms for expansions in the Atlantic and Mediterranean, you can select planes' loadout, be very accurate in what you do (at the expanse of one space bar per week), there's a battle editor, the tutorial really holds the player's hand... Well, the list can be pretty long.

I won't say that's a bad game, it is not even botched, but there are some very peculiar choices in the game design that may raise the bar for a lot of people. Needlessly. A game doesn't get more complex or interesting by requesting the player to babysit every unit or to follow a task plan to go from A to B. I'm unsure people buy this kind of game to have a "clunky starcraft on water".

[MengJiao]

A game doesn't get more complex or interesting by requesting the player to babysit every unit or to follow a task plan to go from A to B.

  I've only played the USN, but I think the game accurately shows a lot of actual, real problems that the USN had in the Solomons.  Fire distribution being one.  Formations being another.  In the recent action I contrived, I had to stay in line ahead essentially to reduce the command load.  That is an easier way of showing the command problem than forcing you to send and interpret every signal -- that is abstracted very well in that you stay in line ahead so that you have time to deal with other things.  When things went wrong (torpedo hit on the rear DD -- which was a little close to the enemy during the turn-away), I had to break up the formation and do some wild manouevering....but by then I'd distributed targets and things worked out -- just barely.

  So (and you do sort of have to change the oil when you work on damage control)...I'm pretty happy with the level and type of decisions the game allows -- again after all you don't have to do any signaling (that would be a nightmare level of problems) and yet you do feel that formations are valuable and fire distribution is tricky.  and float planes are pretty neato and functional in the game and you can pick any place in the Solomons and have actual terrain and hydrology.

[Sir Slash]

So how is it stability-wise? And can you save anytime you want?

[MengJiao]

So how is it stability-wise? And can you save anytime you want?

  Very stable.  Loads fast.  I think you can save, but I've been running in the editor so people should check the manual (which is good and right there on the training menu).  The editor is excellent and you can have your battles anywhere in the Solomons (or maybe the whole Pacific ?  I've only seen Guadalcanal, Savo, the Florida Islands, Rennell, Kolombangara, Munda and Rendova) which is great.  I've only worked with floatplanes, destroyers and cruisers in combat, but those seem to work fine...as does the weather and lighting.  I'd like more floatplanes, plus PT boats and barges, but the main aspects of naval battles in the Solomons (mostly gun and torpedo battles within the chain and around the slot) are well covered from what I've seen.  So I've mostly been pleasantly surprised with how the game works.

[The_Admiral]

Besides, I'd like to point out in addition to my earlier comment that it is actually possible to place CAP above your CV - you can still use the air tab when en engagement is waiting to be resolved on the main map. That's a bit undocumented, but it's there, no fret!

[Rayfer]

How does this compare to the older Victory at Sea: Pacific by Evil Twin Artworks? 

[JasonPratt]

I noticed that subsim afficiando Wolfpack has a new video up, playing the game as a destroyer pair vs a Japanese sub.

[MengJiao]

  and float planes are pretty neato and functional in the game and you can pick any place in the Solomons and have actual terrain and hydrology.

  I tried my Rendova Scenario from the Imperial Side (adding the Light Cruiser Sendai to the Imperialists and a DD to the US side so 4 modern DDs versus 4 old DDs and an old Light cruiser) BUT the USN AI just ran away.

   So I says to myself -- that can't be right -- 4 modern USN DDs in 1943 should be able to beat 4 old Jap DDs and an old light Cruiser.  Well so I tried for the USN.  Things were kind of worrisome for a while -- the Japs fired their torps and I dodged and then the light cruiser came straight in as if to show how aggressive the AI could be with a light cruiser.  So I switched the guns to AP and fired all torps and well...3 Torps hit the Sendai and down she went.
   Then I ran for it cuz two of my DDs were a bit shot up.  In the end I think all but one Jap DD went down burning.

   And there was a floatplane dog fight:

[MengJiao]

   And there was a floatplane dog fight:

   Floatplane off the north coast of New Guinea:

[Jarhead0331]

Hard to believe this one is a pass for now. It looks so damn good.