American Airlines CRJ700 has mid-air collision with an Army Blackhawk at KDCA

[Sigwolf]

No report on anyone's status, other than the plane ended up in the Potomac.  It doesn't look good.

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/crj-700-helicopter-midair-in-washington/?MailingID=FLY250129043&utm_campaign=avwebflash&utm_medium=newsletter&oly_enc_id=2571F4197745H3G

[Redwolf]

You'd think the landing approach pattern of an airliner is predictable enough to keep helicopters out :(

[Jarhead0331]

My hunch is that a lot of the holes in Swiss cheese lined up on this tragedy. Controller error or distraction, pilot deviation, flight conditions, communications issues, etc.

It's crowded airspace. These things do unfortunately happen.

[Tripoli]

My hunch is that a lot of the holes in Swiss cheese lined up on this tragedy. Controller error or distraction, pilot deviation, flight conditions, communications issues, etc.

It's crowded airspace. These things do unfortunately happen.

I agree.  My "gut feel" guess is that the cause will likely be mutually reinforcing, cascading human error.  Prayers for the victims and their families.

[Jarhead0331]

[Jarhead0331]

Part 2

[Redwolf]

I though it is generally assumed hopeless to spot a jet for collision avoidance purposes.

That, and in the dark it is too easy to spot a different plane than ATC was talking about and never be the wiser.

[Sigwolf]

Definitely a lot of factors involved. Unfortunately, military helicopter operations along the river in the approach path of runway 33 at DCA are *extremely* common.  The ridiculously complex and congested nature of that airspace results in a lot of procedures that aren't necessarily seen elsewhere (IAD, DCA, ADW, BWI, and a lot of smaller airports in very close proximity).

In this case arrivals to DCA were coming in on approach to runway 1, and the tower was selectively peeling aircraft off that approach to land runway 33 (another common, and charted procedure) for timing concerns and to allow departures between arrivals.

PAT25 (the UH-60) was proceeding south along the river while JIA5342 (the CRJ) was on approach for rwy1. At towers request, JIA5342 accepted the circle to rwy33 and was cleared to land.  At this point, the two aircraft are basically head on until JIA5342 makes the small left turn to align with final on rwy33.  The controller calls traffic, and PAT25 reports the aircraft in sight and requests visual separation, which was granted and he is told to pass behind.

The strangest thing watching the radar returns is that when JIA5342 makes the left turn to final that would have separated the two, the southbound PAT25 actually turns slightly right *into* the path of the CRJ rather than turning behind him.  Initial speculation is that PAT25 was actually seeing a different aircraft rather than the intended CRJ.  There was an American A319 a few miles behind and a few hundred feet higher that was still on approach for rwy1.  It is also unclear whether the crew of PAT25 was using NVG's (it appears to have been a training flight, rather than VIP transport).

[Toonces]

I watched it a couple of times.  I'm inclined to think the helo pilot was looking at AA3130 in sight.  He may have gotten the CRJ's lights mixed up with the background lights.  I think the pilot at the controls is usually the left seat; if so he'd be inclined to be looking more left than straight or to the right. 

I can't figure out why he did the right turn unless it was to stay along the river's path.

Lastly, that DCA Tower controller is an absolute stud.

[Redwolf]

In helicopters the head huncho sits on the right, though.

[Toonces]

Ahhh.  Well that's that for my theory.  I suppose, then, that the left side co-pilot might have been calling the traffic, in which case the pilot wouldn't have seen the CRJ regardless.

I can't really think of another plausible explanation.  I know relative speeds and such can be challenging, especially at night, but I still think it most likely the crew was avoiding the AA3130 plane.

[Jarhead0331]

I can't really think of another plausible explanation.  I know relative speeds and such can be challenging, especially at night, but I still think it most likely the crew was avoiding the AA3130 plane.

Most analysis I have seen is corroborating this theory. That when the controller asked PAT25 if he had the traffic in sight and the helo answered in the affirmative, he was most likely not looking at the CRJ. Some have criticized the controller for not being more specific in his inquiry given that the two aircraft where clearly heading toward each other on radar.

[Redwolf]

Visual avoidance has been considered useless in the fact of jets for decades.

I also don't think you can tell an Airbus from a CRJ at night. NVGs or not.

[Jarhead0331]

Visual avoidance has been considered useless in the fact of jets for decades.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Visual scanning is a key element of collision avoidance, even for jets. As far as I know, see and avoid is one of the primary methods of VFR traffic separation and it is codified in the CFR.

[Redwolf]

Visual avoidance has been considered useless in the fact of jets for decades.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Visual scanning is a key element of collision avoidance, even for jets. As far as I know, see and avoid is one of the primary methods of VFR traffic separation and it is codified in the CFR.

Not if they are approaching each other head-on. You can use it when flying in approximately the same direction.