Solo or MP?

[Grim.Reaper]

I have to say, I am surprised at the responses.  While it's true, I love to win and play games for just such a reason, I would never think of cheating or doing something hinky to gain the upper hand.  And if playing a game is what you enjoy, then why play for any reason other than to win?  Try different strategies?  Absolutely!  But that doesn't preclude winning.  To leisurely while away some time?  Sure.  Games can be relaxing and enjoyable, but they all have rules and some sort of endgame that could be considered winning.  So why not try to win?  And a drive to win doesn't automatically make you a hard driving alpha or an insufferable a-hole who has to tell you how bad you lost. 

It's joy of playing and competing against like minded people that brings me to these games.  A desire to show your knowledge and acumen in knowing the rules of the game, and warfare, to achieve your objective(s) and come out the winner.  And as good friends will often do, razz each other for unfavorable outcomes or boneheaded ploys that didn't work.

So, while I see all of your reasons for enjoying solo over mp, I guess I don't understand why it's preferable to play solo rather than against an opponent.  Anybody else feeling me?

Like I said - being so bad at these games I often get a decent game from the AI

That is another big reason for me as well.  I know people always comment how poor a games' AI is, but for the life of me it still usually kicks my butt:)

[Al]

I know people always comment how poor a games' AI is...

This is just another thing many wargamers bitch about that I don't really give much attention.  I play PBEM and against the computer.

[gabeeg]

For a long time I hesitated to play MP games.  I was afraid of being tied down to a commitment and the game becoming more a responsibility and work than fun.  I was skeptical of the type of people I would be playing against (mostly from poor experiences playing online chess) and frankly I was afraid of embarrasing myself. 

After awhile I found playing the AI of most of my PC wargames started to get stale.  For example playing the Tiller wargames, there is only so much SB you can play vs the A.I. and only so many scenarios...loved the system but it gets stale.  Another example are the Steel Panther based games.  I also disliked the fact that after playing an AI for awhile you start learning how to beat the AI with tricks and patterns and not beating it using tactical or strategic skill.  I ended up joining Blitz and hanging about the forums for awhile and finally gave PBEM a try.  I was hooked!  It brought new life to the Tiller and SP games for me, they are truly made for PBEM.  My dread of dealing with egos and cheats was ill founded.  I have only had one or two negative experiences and the solution was simple...I don't play them any more.  I am pretty busy with work and 3 girls all under 8yrs old so my time is limited and varied.  I just make sure I am upfront with my opponents in giving a realistic turn around time on games we play, this avoids a fun game becoming work for me or frustration for my opponent.  I have had great experiences and met a lot of great folks playing PBEM (on Blitz in particular). So for me who up until a few years ago was a 100% solo gamer with no thought of MP (I would skip over the MP section of game reviews or feature listings), I now have 2-3 PBEM games going at all times.  I think I am going to try Matrix Decisive Campaigns next...(though the AI games have been pretty darn good). 


My PBEM experience went so well that I thought I might like MP real time games also....well...um...I didn't.   I just do not like having to play a game at a pace that is not my own, or really dealing with people in real time.  I may give MP flight simulatiors a try someday as that sounds like fun, we'll see.


I guess my point is that if you have not given MP a shot you might want to give it a try.  You can really meld your MP experience to fit your wants and needs.  If you have tried and it didn't float your boat for whatever reason...well that is good to...at least now you know you are not missing out :)

[JudgeDredd]

I've tried MP

I've tried it with FPS games and watched all the little wall hackers and headshot specialists and thought "Nah". I've tried racing online only to have wreckers flying round not giving a shite who they hit.

It's not all been bad. The good experiences I've had were as members of a clan (co-op) and racing online - both of which with a good community made for a great online experience - but I simply don't have the time to do online gaming to that level.

I've also tried PBEM - and it really takes away from the immersion for me...so it's not all about not trusting people. Licking up a file, loading it, watching what your opponent did and then taking your turn and sending the file - only to wait and wait and wait - or not - point is having no idea when that file will be back to you...it just breaks the immersion and the game for me.

When I want to play a game - I want to play it then...not have x minutes playing and then wait for an unknown amount of time to have your next game.

It's a "broken" gaming experience for me. Just not enjoyable.

[MarkShot]

For about 7 years I played flight sims online. I was in the top 10%. I used to compete, write guides, and mentor. Truly, it was the best flying that I've ever seen or done.

However, even without formal competition, it was very stressful. I have cardiac problems and a night of on the edge flying could leave my hands shaking, and also chest pains ... Despite the fun.

If you want to teach, it is not enought to be published or have good references, you must be able and willing to prove yourself constantly. The gun slinger in those old West flicks is a good analogy.

Being Top Gun in many ways restricted my freedom. Flying anything but my preferred game could result in me losing that all important touch and timing.

So, in a very real sense MP limited my gaming freedom to play other flight sims or explore other genres. Since going offline in 2001, I have branched out considerably, and experienced a rennasaince of gaming. So, I am fine with no human opponents.

As far as the social aspect of gaming goes, that's why I participate here!

[Bismarck]

I think for most people it's a matter of time and coordinating a game within everyones availible schedules.  Also I like to game to decompress or relax and MP isn't necessarily conducive to that.

+ 1

[MengJiao]

I will admit that my situation is more conducive to available time slots.  But I work sixty hours a week, have a girlfriend, and a child and his family that live with me.  I also understand the allure of solo play for all the reasons stated above.  I guess what I don't get is, where is the itch to compete?  As a whole, are wargamers immune to the call of whooping a$$?  Some of the best times I have had playing are a hard fought battle that my superior tactics/production/maneuvers/luck/etc. won me over a good friend.  The sense of accomplishment is satisfying far more than beating an A.I.  And, you get to talk smack :-)

After 40 year of beating people at games, as a rule I prefer playing a reasonable AI.  I guess most of my gaming never has been about competing, but more like reading or watching a movie.  I still play some PBEM and even some online stuff, but most of the time I prefer to be mildly puzzled by the AI.  To some degree, this is just something I've learned over time.  You can get a good PBEM or a good online thing going, but I've learned to enjoy playing the AI because the AI is better than PBEM players who disappear or online situations that degenerate.
Also, I often modify the rules (especially in boardgames) or even mix games (for example, using Elusive Victory air rules in Harpoon 4.1) and your average player isn't happy with such things -- but I am.

[MetalDog]

Thanks for all the good responses guys.  Having a larger sample size gives me a clearer understanding of my original question.  I may have come off a little priggish to begin with, but my makeup and my reason for playing games I thought were way more common than what I saw in the initial replies.

@Judge Dredd-I was pretty sure you were making a general statement, not a specific one.  Having played several RTS MP, I have found that what works in one group doesn't always work in others.  Amongst my friends, I regularly win.  Stepping out into the general community, I tend to get my a$$ handed to me.  A very humbling experience.

[Nefaro]

It's all about hassle and relaxation.

I like MMOs because it's simple to get into.. and you can still pretty much play solo with all the extra chat options & such.   PBEM is the most annoying, due to the extra hassle, wait times between turns, and RL affecting the frequency.

[Huw the Poo]

I may have come off a little priggish to begin with

Not at all!  It just seemed to me that, as someone who prefers MP, you were genuinely surprised to find yourself in the minority.  As far as I recall, whenever a developer has talked about SP vs MP in their games, those playing exclusively or mostly MP are always in the minority.

[JudgeDredd]

Thanks for all the good responses guys.  Having a larger sample size gives me a clearer understanding of my original question.  I may have come off a little priggish to begin with, but my makeup and my reason for playing games I thought were way more common than what I saw in the initial replies.

@Judge Dredd-I was pretty sure you were making a general statement, not a specific one.  Having played several RTS MP, I have found that what works in one group doesn't always work in others.  Amongst my friends, I regularly win.  Stepping out into the general community, I tend to get my a$$ handed to me.  A very humbling experience.

Ok - sorry - perhaps I read into that more than I should've.

[undercovergeek]

PBEM is the most annoying, due to the extra hassle, wait times between turns, and RL affecting the frequency.

Wha? Surely the easiest.... Is my turn in? Nope, cool ill play some whatever.... Is it now, yes it is.... Play turn send back out

How is that hassle?

[MengJiao]

PBEM is the most annoying, due to the extra hassle, wait times between turns, and RL affecting the frequency.

Wha? Surely the easiest.... Is my turn in? Nope, cool ill play some whatever.... Is it now, yes it is.... Play turn send back out

How is that hassle?

I agree.  The best thing about PBEM is that it is pretty easy to manage in terms of time and nature of your game.

Online FPS -- while definitely the most fun -- I'm wary of them since if you get pretty good at them they can eat up a lot of time.
I've pretty much stopped online FPS because I just get too far into it.  Maybe when I retire again I'll go back to laughing at midnight
when I jump out of my M-10, shoot the guy with the MG42 with my 45, take the MG and rampage onward. 

Come to think of it, jumping out of one's tank isn't even considered good ettiquette anymore is it?

Anyway for now plundering Athens with Sulla and Barbo is more relaxing.

[Nefaro]

PBEM is the most annoying, due to the extra hassle, wait times between turns, and RL affecting the frequency.

Wha? Surely the easiest.... Is my turn in? Nope, cool ill play some whatever.... Is it now, yes it is.... Play turn send back out

How is that hassle?

Because I tend to lose interest after the constant waiting, for one.

By the time a scenario is finished, a month later, I'm already on to some other genre and the turn-around typically gets slower & slower between turns.  I'd rather just have a head-to-head session than PBEM anymore. 

I suppose the Slitherine-Matrix PBEM server has made this a lot less painful, but there are only a handful of games that use it.

[JudgeDredd]

PBEM is the most annoying, due to the extra hassle, wait times between turns, and RL affecting the frequency.

Wha? Surely the easiest.... Is my turn in? Nope, cool ill play some whatever.... Is it now, yes it is.... Play turn send back out

How is that hassle?

Because I tend to lose interest after the constant waiting, for one.

By the time a scenario is finished, a month later, I'm already on to some other genre and the turn-around typically gets slower & slower between turns.  I'd rather just have a head-to-head session than PBEM anymore. 

I suppose the Slitherine-Matrix PBEM server has made this a lot less painful, but there are only a handful of games that use it.

Exactly how I feel about pbem