Red Victory 43

[Sir Slash]

I've been looking at this Squad Battles title at the John Tiller games site off & on for some time now but can find very little about it on the internet. Just a couple of youtube videos. So does anybody know anything about it? Any reviews? Or impressions? Worth $40?

[FlickJax]

I've enjoyed their games over the years but I believe they should look to bring them up to date rather than just releasing scenario updates as new games over and over. IMHO

[Zulu1966]

I've been looking at this Squad Battles title at the John Tiller games site off & on for some time now but can find very little about it on the internet. Just a couple of youtube videos. So does anybody know anything about it? Any reviews? Or impressions? Worth $40?

I have all of Tillers games. I mean all of them - so I am obviously a fan. If you like squad battles then its up to the same standard as the others so it just would come down to whether you liked the theatre and time frame - personally berlin 45 is a favourite of mine and there are a couple of scenarios in there about this. If you havent tried a squd battles game I would say try and take a look at one before you buy - they can be an acquired taste to some extent. Whether its worth 40 $ ? I would say go here as they have it for 29.

http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.yahoo.net/

Very good supplier if you dont mind physical product.

[Bismarck]

I've enjoyed their games over the years but I believe they should look to bring them up to date rather than just releasing scenario updates as new games over and over. IMHO

Explain

[FlickJax]

I've enjoyed their games over the years but I believe they should look to bring them up to date rather than just releasing scenario updates as new games over and over. IMHO

Explain

OK personally I don't think the games have moved on; i'm not saying 3d or whatever but the engine could do with a makeover. Make it easier on the eye and the controls easier to use. Although I haven't played one for a couple of years so I could be barking up the wrong tree. I am just going on screenshots and what I see from their website. My favourites were Sicilly 43 and Middle East 67.

But as I said I don't see much evolving going on, or it could all be under the hood and as i said before I could be barking up the wrong tree.

[gabeeg]

Sir Slash,

   I own a handful of the Squad Battles series from JTS/HPS and I really enjoy the system.  That said it took me a bit to get comfortable with it and get comfortable with some of the abstaction...but once I did I really, really began to appreciate it.  Of the Squad Battles games that I have played, Red Victory is my hands down favorite and a prime example of the importance of a good scenario designer.  The title is excellent and great value for the money.  If you are into turn based tactical hex games you can't do much better than Squad Battles Red Victory IMHO.

Review:

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/squad-battles-red-victory-pc-game-review.htm

Game Play video:

http://vimeo.com/18245771
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7_DLhjAtao

[Zulu1966]

I've enjoyed their games over the years but I believe they should look to bring them up to date rather than just releasing scenario updates as new games over and over. IMHO

Explain

OK personally I don't think the games have moved on; i'm not saying 3d or whatever but the engine could do with a makeover. Make it easier on the eye and the controls easier to use. Although I haven't played one for a couple of years so I could be barking up the wrong tree. I am just going on screenshots and what I see from their website. My favourites were Sicilly 43 and Middle East 67.

But as I said I don't see much evolving going on, or it could all be under the hood and as i said before I could be barking up the wrong tree.

I've enjoyed their games over the years but I believe they should look to bring them up to date rather than just releasing scenario updates as new games over and over. IMHO

Explain

OK personally I don't think the games have moved on; i'm not saying 3d or whatever but the engine could do with a makeover. Make it easier on the eye and the controls easier to use. Although I haven't played one for a couple of years so I could be barking up the wrong tree. I am just going on screenshots and what I see from their website. My favourites were Sicilly 43 and Middle East 67.

But as I said I don't see much evolving going on, or it could all be under the hood and as i said before I could be barking up the wrong tree.

Well ... those titles are panzer campaigns so not related to squad battles. It appears the tree you are barking up is in the wrong forrest. :)

[Nefaro]

I've enjoyed their games over the years but I believe they should look to bring them up to date rather than just releasing scenario updates as new games over and over. IMHO

I agree with him.

They're content additions to the same engine, at the price of a new one.  I don't really care if they want to continue modding the same 90s computer game to add places & periods - it's actually kinda nice since their spread isn't 'All WW2 All The Time'.  But I'm not terribly inclined to buy up every one at full price.  I rarely do, actually.  And they do generally look bad.   Give us a makeover or something!

I'd say the Squad Battles series is probably the shiniest of their catalog, though.  The PzC series makes my eyes squinty-bleed at hi res.  Even the Matrix re-release of the very old Napoleons/Civil War pack looks a good deal better than the ones sold individually for much more.   I'm surprised they do enough business to stay afloat - is it just a hobby, perhaps?

Meh.  My bitchiness is at new levels tonight.  Sorry for all the negative waves.  :-\

[Al]

I've been playing Panzer Campaigns since the first one (Smolensk 41) came out.  Over the past couple years on the net I've seen two major complaints against the series 1) Update the engine and 2) the graphics suck.  Regarding the engine - well it is basically the same format as when it started but the "engine" has been updated so many times between Smolensk41 and Moscow42 that I don't consider it to be the same engine.  In other words, I don't buy the "same old engine" argument.  Regarding graphics - compared to some of th games that I see people on this forum play, yea PzC looks plain but I really don't know what change I would make in graphics.  The information I need to know is there and the maps shows the terrain and rivers and cities, etc.  I've never seen anyone specifically say what about the graphics they don't like other than resolution issues.  Maybe that's just it.

If you look at the JohnTillerSimulations front page you'll notice he makes mention of the all the goverment contracts he gets so my guess is that the commercial wargaming part of his business might just be a hobby.

Not trying to slag anyone on their opinions - just putting mine out there.

[LongBlade]

If you look at the JohnTillerSimulations front page you'll notice he makes mention of the all the goverment contracts he gets so my guess is that the commercial wargaming part of his business might just be a hobby.

I've chatted with them before. Been a while, but as I recall they said as long as they can still make some money making games they'll stick with it.

Edit: that comment wasn't meant as crass - to the contrary - they love making wargames for us and meant they'd continue to do so as long as the community bought their games.

But you're right - the government money is the big stuff for them.

[Zulu1966]

I've been playing Panzer Campaigns since the first one (Smolensk 41) came out.  Over the past couple years on the net I've seen two major complaints against the series 1) Update the engine and 2) the graphics suck.  Regarding the engine - well it is basically the same format as when it started but the "engine" has been updated so many times between Smolensk41 and Moscow42 that I don't consider it to be the same engine.  In other words, I don't buy the "same old engine" argument.  Regarding graphics - compared to some of th games that I see people on this forum play, yea PzC looks plain but I really don't know what change I would make in graphics.  The information I need to know is there and the maps shows the terrain and rivers and cities, etc.  I've never seen anyone specifically say what about the graphics they don't like other than resolution issues.  Maybe that's just it.

If you look at the JohnTillerSimulations front page you'll notice he makes mention of the all the goverment contracts he gets so my guess is that the commercial wargaming part of his business might just be a hobby.

Not trying to slag anyone on their opinions - just putting mine out there.

Well yes I agree with that. With the mods for map and unit displays you can get - I am not sure what people mean when they say update them. Its kind of always a general complaint with nothing specific in the way of what is actually meant. I guess if it means trying to replicate some of the more modern boardgame graphics then I would certainly go for that but beyond that I never quite know what that remark means.

For historical fidelity though - OOB and scale - nothing comes close to PzC games. For me as far as operational games go there isnt a more detailed game out there in turn based world.

I am sure most wargaming dev is a hobby - and where it isnt I would suspect the income is barely enough to support one or two people permanently. I know a couple of the matrix developers are full time but beyond that not sure.

Look at it this way - if they retail at $39 and they sell a thousand - its 39,000 dollars - so whichever way they are not driving ferraris. I suppose if they sell 4,000 then it becomes a slightly different prospect for one or two guys on their own or releasing more than one title a year.

But i have frankly not the first idea as to how many your average wargame would actually sell.

[LongBlade]

But i have frankly not the first idea as to how many your average wargame would actually sell.

Those numbers are fairly tightly held.

My guess - and it's a guess - is Tiller titles sell between 1,000 and 5,000 copies. It's enough to be worthwhile without being enough to make them a AAA studio.

[Keunert]

isn't it called Red Victory 2012?

[LongBlade]

isn't it called Red Victory 2012?

Strangely enough, Democrats are called "blue" these days. I do appreciate the humor, though :)

[jomni]

Many say that Red Victory is the best of the series.  If you only need to get one Squad Battles game, then RV is the one to get.
Forget about old style graphics, UI, and game mechanics.  The scenarios are works of a genius.
The scenario designer, Ozgur, clearly knows the game inside out (he has good win loss ratio in The Blitz).
This knowledge enables him to make creative and balanced scenarios that make use of the 'ancient' game engine really well.