Toy Soldiers on PC

[W8taminute]

Love the comments by Huw and Zulu.  I couldn't have said it any better myself. 

Gus I think you're feeling those feelings because you're reading Guns of August.  Barbara Tuchman does an outstanding job capturing the feeling of desperation as well as the end of one era and the beginnings of a new era.  She brilliantly describes how everyone marched off to war with this notion of being on an idealistic crusade but that feeling was crushed within the first month of fighting.  The world that was came to an end and for the next four years a new world would be forged at the expense of so many millions.  Fast forward to today and I see a similar pattern.  The old ways of thinking are quickly being replaced by something sinister IMHO.  What that sinister is I don't know but my gut tells me something is not right. 

Anyway, don't stop playing games that make you feel sad.  Don't stop.  Why?  Because these games remind us of how evil man can be and that we must not forget that fact.  Playing these games helps remind us the importance of doing good.  Am I being sappy?  NO.  I am maintaining my compassion by not being afraid to talk about feelings such as what you're experiencing now with Toy Soldiers.

[Huw the Poo]

Well said, W8.

[Longdan]

If you played this game and gleefully mowed down thousands
thinking of the lovely carnage and the lives ended and blighted
there would be something wrong with you.  The fact that it provokes
a kind of melancholy is a reflection of your own humanity.
But they aren't really toy soldiers.  They are electric images of imaginary toy
soldiers in a toy box on a screen in your office where you are sitting in your
underwear smoking dope and guzzling mega cans of sweet, sweet beer!
This is an affirmation of life no matter how perverted.
Protect you toy box!!  That is your mission.

[Gusington]

That is a better way to look at it....and great post abobe W8.

Another bit I recall is that I never feel this way with sims, since humans are represented in a much smaller scale.

Huw I actually did read that RPS piece when it was first posted...I think it explains what I felt well.

[bob48]

Gus - Warlock!

[Nefaro]

Gus - Warlock!

No love for dragons & giants! 

Send waves of your goblins against their machineguns, to die!   (Beeeest archuuurrs in da wurrrr *splat*!)

[bob48]

*splat*?

Surely its *zwiiiish--ker-thunk!*

[Father Ted]

I think worrying about this sort of thing is a perfectly natural, and indeed healthy, reaction.  With respect I'd say that people who say, "but it's only a videogame" are missing the point.  The activity in the game triggers thoughts about what actually went on.  Your melancholy maybe misplaced with respect to a knockabout time-filler, but that doesn't make thinking about the actual events of WW1 wrong.

There was a thread over on the Rise of Flight forums recently which had a similar theme - something along the lines of "if horses were modeled properly would you shoot them?"  Some people took it at face value and said, "Well if it helps the war effort...", or "I couldn't bring myself to do that".  Quite a few said,"Why are you even asking this, it's just a videogame?".

My feeling is that if you don't feel some sort of emotional charge when playing games, then why bother?  Obviously you can't really care about the"fate" of virtual people (or livestock), but I think it's entirely reasonable to imagine how you might feel and behave if they were real.  That to me is the essence of games playing - experiencing by proxy situations which you would (hopefully in most cases) never meet in real life and having the chance to try them out without consequence.

But that shouldn't stop you thinking about those situations and the people who endured them .

[Gusington]

Great post, Father. Are you really a priest?

And eerie coincidence but there are horses in Toy Soldiers too and I did think about mowing them down in the same way as you describe above.

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

You should give Spec Ops: The Line a whirl.  The gameplay is nothing special, but the game itself is very interesting.  It uses Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse Now as a template.  The game starts off almost as a cliche with a team of stereotypical, tough as nails Delta operators dropped into Dubai after its been destroyed by a series of sandstorms.  The tone of the game subtely changes as you progress and puts you in a lot of no-win situations.  The change of tone is very well done and subtle enough that you might not even notice a lot of the visual and audio queues.  By the end, you almost get a sense that the game designers are actively conspiring against you in an effort to get you to think about the nature of war and the nature of violence in games.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/6021-Spec-Ops-The-Line

http://ca.ign.com/videos/2012/06/22/spec-ops-the-line-beyond-the-line-part-1



EDIT: I just found this article discussing the design decisions behind the game.  Fascinating reading but it is full of spoilers so you should give it a miss until after you've played.  It has made me want to go and play though the game again just to see what I missed in my initial playthrough.  It sounds like I missed a lot.


***SPOILERS***

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2012/07/20/the-story-secrets-of-spec-ops-the-line

[Huw the Poo]

Obviously you can't really care about the"fate" of virtual people (or livestock), but I think it's entirely reasonable to imagine how you might feel and behave if they were real.

I can't help but do this when I play some games.  In Sins of a Solar Empire I will, without even thinking about it, do everything I can to prevent one of my planets being wiped out - even if it incurs massive fleet losses.  Or if a capital ship is destroyed I'll do my best to avenge the crew, even if it makes no tactical sense to do so.

I think this is all perfectly natural, and as Longdan said, it would be more worrying if we didn't care about these little virtual people.

[Father Ted]

Great post, Father. Are you really a priest?

Thank you and no.  I'm actually a firm atheist.  "Father Ted" is the eponymous character from a 1990s Irish sitcom (I'm not Irish either).  When I first started online gaming it tickled me to think of a silly comedy priest running around the slightly po-faced world of Red Orchestra and Darkest Hour.  A good side effect of choosing the nick is that quite a few people this side of the pond recognize the name, which leads to a bit of banter.

[Huw the Poo]

"Father Ted" is the eponymous character from a 1990s Irish sitcom (I'm not Irish either).

It is one of the best TV shows I've ever seen.  Incredibly funny.

[Staggerwing]

"Father Ted" is the eponymous character from a 1990s Irish sitcom (I'm not Irish either).

It is one of the best TV shows I've ever seen.  Incredibly funny.

For Gus (and the rest of you who have Netflix): http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Father_Ted/70217141?locale=en-US

Only Episode 7 is online right now  ??? but it might be on the DVD roster (which I don't have on my streaming only account).

[Gusington]

This thread, beyond the initial posts calling me a fairy, is becoming educational.

OK so: Father Ted is not a priest nor is his name Ted but his handle is based on an Irish sitcom. And he's not Irish.

SDR I never even heard of the game you describe above...curious sounding game.

Thanks for the above 'Wing and Huw.