Joining the Guard at 31?

[Jarhead0331]

The problem in a bottom-heavy organization like the Army is that as a leader you can only devote so much time to developing your subordinates and you can only juggle so many balls to make sure they are in the job that makes them happy, particularly with our up or out system where advancements are on a pretty strict timeline (more for officers than enlisted).

I've heard this problem has eased somewhat since the repeal of DADT.  The military is now able to juggle many more balls than it could before.

[Longdan]

I have always thought there is something systemically wrong with "up or out".
I feel that in peacetime it encourages rabid careerism at the expense of the organisation.
How many Majors are obsessed with getting the right battalion command at the right
moment with the right superior when they move up?  If the answer is "three" it is
too many.  These guys supposedly have a job to do like everybody else not a personal
goal to meet every few years.  Your Framers did not want a peacetime army for a number
of reasons.  That is one.  They did not want to create a military/civil servant elite class
who existed to climb the power structure not serve the nation.  We have Wall Street for that.

[LongBlade]

Has Dan been tossing cases of tea into Vancouver harbor lately?

[Longdan]

Too far away.  No tea party for me.  If those guys were caught and prosecuted
it would have been all okay and in accordance with the rule of law.
If they did it today there would be a gunfight and the survivors would
go to jail.   Anyway my comments above were just based on some experience
I had.  A peacetime army can get really dysfunctional fast because it does not
do what its is meant to do.  Smart guys with nothing constructive to do will
work the system to make their personal situation better.

[Jarhead0331]

Anyway my comments above were just based on some experience
I had. 

Which is what, exactly?

[Longdan]

Mostly Canadian Armed Forces 1973-1975 as far as the above comment goes.

[GDS_Starfury]

so your excuse is frostbite and ddt.

now you suddenly make sense.

[Airborne Rifles]

The problem in a bottom-heavy organization like the Army is that as a leader you can only devote so much time to developing your subordinates and you can only juggle so many balls to make sure they are in the job that makes them happy, particularly with our up or out system where advancements are on a pretty strict timeline (more for officers than enlisted).

I've heard this problem has eased somewhat since the repeal of DADT.  The military is now able to juggle many more balls than it could before.

Not that there's anything wrong with that... ;D

[Longdan]

They never, ever had a shortage of balls.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

That's Private Dancer to you, sir. 

Might as well start learning to do it the right way, Private.

The Hobbits bow to no one.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

That's Private Dancer to you, sir. 

Might as well start learning to do it the right way, Private.

Gus has a college degree.  He'll most likely be Specialist Gus.

Why not Lieutenant Gus?

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

With my MBA and work experience he told me I'd probably be brought in as a corporal. I decided to pass :/

Enlisting with a college degree in the US Army gets your brought in at E4, but as a Specialist.  You don't get to be a Corporal unless you're actually in charge of people (in an NCO position).
There are OCS options that can get you through basic and AIT and straight into OCS without stopping first at a troop unit, but those are hard to come by.

A Cpl with a MBA??!!  Who needs a Cpl with a MBA?!

But why would/should a post-grad college degree get you any higher when enlisting in the military?  Especially when advancing in the military involves significant amounts of demonstrating technical competence in your military skills?

(not a knock on LB specifically, but on college-educated enlistees in general)

It depends on what the degree is in. I would think an MBA would be fast tracked up the logistics arm. An archaeologist PhD would bring nothing to getting men and material to the fight. They would be a regular troop.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I commissioned straight out of college.  A friend of mine from high school who was getting his master's at Harvard and ran out of money and enlisted last year and we ended up in the same battalion, him as a private and me as a company commander.  I missed having him in my company by one slot.  Might have been a little awkward.

I'd give you the same advice a gave him; the military is generally designed to deal with the lowest common denominator: a scared 18 year old private.  Someone like you coming in can easily get very frustrated with being treated like an 18 year old, but you also have a great opportunity to be an asset and a positive influence on your 'peers.'  I've only seen a couple people seize this opportunity without becoming frustrated and bitter (my high school friend falls into the frustrated bitter category).

That seems like a waste of resources. "Frustrated bitter" for the guy is not surprising.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Longblade,
Let me give you my perspective on this.

In the Navy you commission as an Ensign.  In my case I went to flight school for two years before I reported to an operational squadron and was actually "in charge" of enlisted people.  However, I did get to work with a lot of Ensigns during my last tour on the boat, so I have an idea of how the relationship works when you're truly a brand new O-1.  Basically, unless the Ensign is a complete tool, they understand that the Chief (E-7) that runs their division "runs" their division, and their job as an Ensign is to learn how the Navy works, learn some basic leadership skills, and get qualified in their warfare area.  Part of the Chief's oath is that their mission is to train junior officers, and I believe most young officers "get it".  Still, you can pin on Chief in about 10 years in the Navy.  So if you're a 10-year Chief, you're probably 28 or 29 years old, compared to a 22-25 year-old junior officer.  The age disparity isn't that huge.

Even as a Lieutenant I was still fairly intimidated by Chiefs, and especially Master Chiefs (E-9).  By the time you've been in a few years and sort of seen how it all works, you understand that a Master Chief is by definition pretty salty and you're not his peer, even if technically you out rank him.  In fact, I'd say that it's only in the last few years that I've started to feel comfortable directing a Master Chief. 

Now, I'm going to contrast that with Gusington going into the Army as an E-1 Private.  Like Rifles said, the military is going to gear things for the E-1 to the lowest common denominator, the scared 18 year-old.  When I was 18 I was sweeping and swabbing floors at McDonald's, flipping burgers, and doing that sort of stuff.  Well, it's the same in the military.  I'm generalizing here, but it wouldn't surprise me if Gus shows up to his first drill and they do a "field day" and clean some area.  If you're 18 and you're out picking up trash or swabbing out the head, hey that's how it goes.  But I'm trying to imagine 38 year-old, college educated family man Gus showing up and Jarhead is telling Gus to round up those 4 other E-1s and head out to the PT field and pick up all the trash, and then grab some mobs and swab out the company heads.  Gus is going to be like, "WTF?  This is what I signed up for?"  Yes, yes it is.

Which is a long way of explaining why, again, I think there is a shelf life to these kinds of dreams.  It is very admirable for anyone to continue to pursue their dreams, but at the same time, I do think it's reasonable to do a reality check to see if, really, it's still feasible. 

I hope that makes sense.

It does make a lot of sense. It sounds like reality.


Gus has significant military history skill. He should get away from being private to being something along war planning lines. Do they have war planners for platoons? How can he get to use his tactical sense?

[Longdan]

Soldiers learn how to dig among other things.  Archaeology guys dig.
Historians attempt to wring truth from propaganda.  Soldiers are fed a diet of propaganda.
Gus could be a cook.