My land warfare dilemma

[GDS_Starfury]

have you thought of trying Tac Ops?



being a squid you'll have to get a box of grid squares.  but after that it should be all sunshine and boobies.

[Ashcloud]

I have FPG as well and I think what prevents me from playing it more often is that the maps and grids make your options seem a little simplistic.  There is less tactical thought than you would get for something where you have to take more terrain features into account (hedgerows, different levels of forrestation, suburb, isolated house etc).  I think the level of granularity is lacking for this game where it stops at least for me being a tactical exercise where I am trying to decide how best to combine arms, position units, recon etc to instead it being almost more of a card game and just place my counter and fire at anything it sees.

My wish would be to have something like Command Ops set in 1980's Germany (I keep hearing rumors that someday Panther games will do this) but alas nothing ever seems to come about.

Con

You guys should try the Cold War mod for JTCS at theblitz.org (it is a stand alone game at http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=247). The official Modern Wars for JTCS is still not out yet but we live and hope...

[Zulu1966]

Toonces...the trouble I'm having in making recommendations is that your tastes seem to be all over the place.  Do you want an FPS? A TBS? An RTS?  Something tactical? Strategic? Operational?  All of the above? None of the above?  You've mentioned some fabulous titles that you seem to be struggling with and it may be that you are not enjoying the because they simply are not the style or type of game you are itching for.  Let me know.  Help me help you, brother...

I think this is the root of my problem- my tastes are all over the place and, frankly, I don't really know what it is I want to play.

I'm not really looking for a new game.  I have a ton of games.  I'm trying to figure out which game I already own is "worth it" in the sense that I'm going to sit down and really invest the time to figure out how to play it right. 

I think of all the games I mentioned, ARMA2 is probably the closest to what I want to play.  What I think I'm looking for is an infantry/armor sim that is lighter than SB:Pro, but is still heavy enough for me to simulate interesting stuff in a meaningful way.  Like I said, I waffle between ARMA2, SB, and DCS:CA because at the end of the day, when I finally have the game figured out, I want the pay off to be worth it.  ARMA2 just plain confuses me, though.  I can't figure out the control scheme, and it doesn't have a quick mission builder like DCS:CA has so the investment to get playing is higher.  I've used that website to create missions but I've had poor luck creating a mission that is any sort of fun.

On the other hand, if I can figure out ARMA2 then that opens up Iron Front as well, and IF could be an up and comer. 

When I first booted up Brothers in Arms I thought "yes, finally, this is what I've been looking for!"  Small units, a very, very intuitive interface, and I didn't feel overwhelmed by the scope of the game.  However, in working through the first couple of missions in the Road to Hill 30 campaign, it feels incredibly scripted and linear.  I don't feel like I have any room for thought and every mission (so far) seems to be- get a squaddie to lay down suppressing fire, while I run around the barrel/hedge/wall and kill the bad guy.  Maybe it gets better later on, and I haven't tried the skirmish mode yet.

I guess I'll simplify my question a bit and ask, of Steel Beasts Pro, Combined Arms, and ARMA2, which would you recommend sitting down to get good at and why?

I'm really liking Combat Mission Shock Force, but damn I wish I could drill down and drive one of those vehicles!

CMSF is a fantastic game - but I know what you mean - as have thought it myself. Honestly - if you want to convert your CMSF experience into a "sim" experience then Steel Beasts is the way to do it. Its hard and complex but will reward the effort.

[MikeGER]

I'm really liking Combat Mission Shock Force, but damn I wish I could drill down and drive one of those vehicles!

...at least you can move the camera to a 'kind of over-the-shoulder' view, and switch it to fix-follow the unit.
(in CMBN2.0:  preset-view-angle "2", slightly adjust with arrow-key 'up' and a little zoom-in with 'x' is as close to open hatch as it gets. When the vehicle is not moving and you dont have to leech the cam to the vehicle, the cam can be positioned better... use the arrow keys to look around and x to 'use binoculars', when the cam is fixed, other cam-controls will end the fix-view)

wouldn't a tank commander not also ride in the turret-hatch and only give orders to his driver with a designated spot in the landscape and a target commands to the gunner, including also zones to scan for targets?

Toonces, as a flight simmer i bet you have Track-IR :) you may like to do some experiments...
(my experimental setup worked...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UiYPB-QjH0  jump to 1:15   

...damn i have to reawaken this project, now with the CM 2.0 engine update ...and the soon to come warmovie-shader in the update wich will come with the next italy-module in a few weeks)     

[bayonetbrant]

wouldn't a tank commander not also ride in the turret-hatch and only give orders to his driver with a designated spot in the landscape and a target commands to the gunner, including also zones to scan for targets?

The driver has a very minimal view of what's around him, and takes most of him commands from the TC up in the turret.  His vision blocks are good enough to keep him on the road, or to guide off another vehicle in open terrain.  But other than that, there's a lot of instruction coming from the turret.  The gunner is the next man on the totem pole after the TC.  Drivers/loaders are the lower enlisted guys in the crew.

[Jarhead0331]

I forgot to mention that I also have Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising and Red River, if it makes a difference.  I haven't tried either of them yet.

Try them...they are great under-rated games.  They are not as complex as ARMA II, and the world is not quite as dynamic, but it has better pacing and the action is very intense.

[Nefaro]

You guys should try the Cold War mod for JTCS at theblitz.org (it is a stand alone game at http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=247). The official Modern Wars for JTCS is still not out yet but we live and hope...

I forgot all about that being "in development".  I suppose it's still going?

I've not really been interested in anything from Matrix lately, other than picking up the AGEOD game Birth Of Rome there.  But this Campaign Series set in a post-WW2/modern period, and the Mark Walker tabletop-ish game, have been a couple I've looked forward to.  If they ever get finished!  Has there been news or is it all hushed?

[Capn Darwin]

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3303655&mpage=1&key=&#3303655

Teaser screens of Flashpoint  Campaigns Red Storm  over on the Matrix site.

[Zulu1966]

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3303655&mpage=1&key=&#3303655

Teaser screens of Flashpoint  Campaigns Red Storm  over on the Matrix site.

Looks good - nice to see the hexes ... How big do the maps get ?

[Jarhead0331]

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3303655&mpage=1&key=&#3303655

Teaser screens of Flashpoint  Campaigns Red Storm  over on the Matrix site.

Looks awesome!  Release date?

[MikeGER]

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3303655&mpage=1&key=&#3303655

Teaser screens of Flashpoint  Campaigns Red Storm  over on the Matrix site.

Capn, why is this gem hidden deep down in the Flashpoint forum and not has its own sub-forum in  [Coming Soon and In Development] ?

THX for the head up :)

[Jack Nastyface]

FWIW and IMHO,
AMRA and SBProPE are two different animals.  SB makes very few concessions towards "playability" (ie:  changing real-world parameters to provide balanced or convenient play) which makes it arguably hi-fi...which isn't for everyone.  For example, the most recent upgrade changed TOW missile operations for the Bradley.  No longer can you just go hull-down, acquire, fire and track; now you have to stop, ensure you are on a flat area (check a bubble level), raise the TOW missile launcher, then fire.  If you then move on and forget to lower the missile rack, you will likely cause serious damage to the component.  Also, driving quickly through a forest can cause vehicle damage (I have sometimes lost radio...but other times I have damaged the laser range finder), and if your TC is unbuttoned and you have a high-speed collision with a rock, etc, he may be injured.
IMHO, SB does NOT play that well from a "strategic map" POV.  Although some gamers will play an entire game by issuing orders on the command map, I personally find that you really need to "jump in" to units to determine cover, LOS, etc.  SB sometimes is a game of meters.  One meter too close to the edge of bluff and you are dead; one meter back and you can spot targets, call arty, etc.  Similarily, doing "shoot and scoot" tactics requires first-person action-station play.  One mission I often play has you defend a couple of mountain passes with two AFV and a bunch of M988 HMMWV with .50 cal HMGs.  If you don't play the HMMWV's in FPS view, they basically end up acting as road-flares.
Of course, SB does have it's flaws.  The graphics aren't great, and there are some "geological" flaws wrt roads across or along hills, rivers and ditches.  I once won an engagement because two entire platoons of soviet tanks got stuck behind a tank that couldn't negotiate a bridge, which caused some of the others to drive into a riverbed where they were basically helpless.  On the other hand, IMHO there simply is no other game out there that even remotely addresses the complexity and lethality of modern armored warfare.

sabot up!
Jack Nastyface

[Toonces]

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3303655&mpage=1&key=&#3303655

Teaser screens of Flashpoint  Campaigns Red Storm  over on the Matrix site.

Capn, why is this gem hidden deep down in the Flashpoint forum and not has its own sub-forum in  [Coming Soon and In Development] ?

THX for the head up :)

That looks really good, Capn.

I don't know if you are recruiting testers still, but if you are I'd be happy to participate.  I'm sure I'm going to buy FPC:RS so I have high hopes that it fills that WWIII board wargame niche I'm longing for. 

@Jack-
I appreciate your discussion on SB.  That sounds like just a bit more detail than I'm looking for right now.  I'm more of a Thirdwire land combat guy right now I think.

I spent some time with ARMA2 last night playing the Vietnam: The Experience mod and I am starting to get the hang of the infantry controls a bit more.  I think I"m going to pick ARMA2 and try to figure it out on the FPS front.

CM:SF for the RTS experience.

And...well the board wargame experience is still vacant, but that's ok for now.

[Capn Darwin]

Now the replies:

@ Toonces - Yes we will be looking for a few testers soon to help with final beta and PBEM++. I'll keep you in mind.

@ MikeGER - I wish I knew. We have been prodding Erik to get us in there since the holidays. Everyone is busy and I know they have a number of projects ahead of us in the queue and only so many resources. Drop a line over there and say you are looking for the forum, but don't see it the Coming Soon section.  ;D

@Jarhead - I'll with the famous when it is done. Hopefully Junish. Everyone working on the game has day jobs, family and other obligations which have already pushed the date back a couple times. We also have to work into the Matrix schedule with their documents and artwork folks and as stated above we are down in the queue a bit. As soon as I have a better idea I will definitely post here and get Longblade in on the game and interview us and such so we can drum up support.

@Zulu1966 - Right now all maps are 15km x 20km (about 1200 hexes total with about 5000-6000 data values per map). The engine can handle larger and as soon as we get into release mode we will look into practical limits on size.

Thanks for the questions and interest!  8)

[Bison]

CM:SF for the RTS experience.

You can also play it TBS which plays out differently too.