Another new one from Matrix: Piercing Fortess Europa

[GJK]

This is a version of the map that I worked on last night.  The mountains/hills/elevations are more in line with the original Anzio boardgame.  I've sent this screenshot to Mr. Hunter to see what he thinks.  I suspect that he will not want to change the map for the release, but this could be a map that I release as a mod - or he may include it and give the players the choice of which map to use.  What are your thoughts?

[Barthheart]

Wow! That's great... but I'm also an old timer from the AH days and have a warm soft spot for those style of graphics.

Either version is great... as long as you don't go to the ugly "steel" mountians that are currently used for WiF!  :P

[GJK]

Oh man, I know what you mean.  I just signed the NDA to become a beta tester for WiF and was looking at the screenshots.  The one big complaint from WiF Final (boardgame) was those steel mountains.  Why on earth they kept them in the PC version is beyond me.  Hopefully those graphics can be modded though the mountmakes it ains and some of the other terrain features certainly look to be tiled (repeated) which makes it difficult to get a natural look. 

[JudgeDredd]

I reckon I must be one of the few people that loves the retro look of WiF  :)

[GJK]

I believe that WiF 1-4 were without the steel mountains.  It was more of a "traditional" wargame look.  It was in WiF Final that they went off the walls with those steel mountains.  I have WiF Final (boardgame) but have been shopping for a copy of WiF 4 to play it on.  To each their own though.  :)

[Barthheart]

I believe that WiF 1-4 were without the steel mountains.  It was more of a "traditional" wargame look.  It was in WiF Final that they went off the walls with those steel mountains.  I have WiF Final (boardgame) but have been shopping for a copy of WiF 4 to play it on.  To each their own though.  :)

I think my copy is 4... you can have it cheap. Let me check when I get home. I just couldn't get into the game as it was then and couldn't be bothered to get the later versions or expansions.
Looking forward to try out the PC game though..  ;)

[GJK]

Cool!  Yes, let me know what you find and how much you want for it!

[jjdenver]

This is a version of the map that I worked on last night.  The mountains/hills/elevations are more in line with the original Anzio boardgame.  I've sent this screenshot to Mr. Hunter to see what he thinks.  I suspect that he will not want to change the map for the release, but this could be a map that I release as a mod - or he may include it and give the players the choice of which map to use.  What are your thoughts?

I'll tell you I don't like this look. Here's why. The absolute number 1 priority for any graphics should be to clearly inform the user. These graphics don't clearly inform me - they leave me wondering. The graphics at the top of the thread are clear. These new ones are not. The reason is that there are "hill lines" randomly scattered across and through hexes. Are these completely irrelevant or do they have a game effect? If they have an effect exactly which hexes and hex sides get the effect? It's almost impossible to tell easily. There are hills on top of hills and hill lines barely touching some hexes, along some hexsides, contained within some hexes - it's very confusing and distracting. To me this is the worst mistake any strategy game graphic artist can make. Don't focus on pretty first, focus on utility and functionality first - then within those constraints work on pretty. I'm asking - please don't make these graphics the default. I think your artistic side is trumping  your common-sense side....not uncommon for great artists I'm sure haha. ;-)

There are also 2 other minor concerns with those new graphics you are proposing.
1) The color of the elevation/terrain doesn't fully fill the hex so might not be clearly visible if a counter is in the hex. The first set of graphics completely fill the hex with color so even if a counter is in the hex I can see the graphic color and know what terrain my unit is in.
2) There are some hexes with multiple colors (even aside from the hill lines) which adds to the confusion and with counters in the hexes I might see a color and think it's the hex terrain color when in fact it's not the main hex color.

If you want to do a mod that's fine, but leave the regular users unmolested by confusing graphics. :)

[jjdenver]

Oh man, I know what you mean.  I just signed the NDA to become a beta tester for WiF and was looking at the screenshots.  The one big complaint from WiF Final (boardgame) was those steel mountains.  Why on earth they kept them in the PC version is beyond me.  Hopefully those graphics can be modded though the mountmakes it ains and some of the other terrain features certainly look to be tiled (repeated) which makes it difficult to get a natural look.

I don't care if it looks natural or un-natural - I only care if I can clearly and without question know what the terrain is in hexes and along hexsides, and also that if there is a counter in the hex I can see the terrain without moving the counter. So I like clipped counters, and colors that fully fill a hex and terrain that runs exactly and boldly along a hexside so I can see the hexside effect. It's annoying in WIF that some of the rivers (light blue and thin) run along the same hexsides as weather lines (also light blue and thin) so that for example north of Chang-Sha in China it's difficult to tell if there is a river or not. But at least the terrain in WIF fully and clearly fills the hex so that I know the base terrain easily and clearly and without moving counters. The one exception to this is that on some islands in the Pacific it's tough to tell if the terrain is clear or jungle. I wish they would use a darker shade of green for jungle or maybe something like yellow so that I can tell immediately if the island is jungle or clear.

See some examples here take as screenshots from an ongoing early 1943 Cyberboard game of WIF:

[Rayfer]

I'm an old-timer too, I remember playing the old AH boardgame Anzio so I am inclined to be positive in looking forward to this game.  I a few of the posts before this one some of you mention a game WiF...what game is that?

[jjdenver]

I'm an old-timer too, I remember playing the old AH boardgame Anzio so I am inclined to be positive in looking forward to this game.  I a few of the posts before this one some of you mention a game WiF...what game is that?

World in Flames - without doubt the best strategic level WW2 game ever created (imo). :)

I play it using Cyberboard and Vassal but there is a PC version being developed by Matrix. I'm in a game now with a bunch of guys from France, Spain and Switzerland. It's great fun.

[GJK]

jjdenver - excellent post re: suggested new map graphics for PFE. All very valid points!  Frank Hunter likes the terrain to fill the entire hex as well so I'm sure that he's going to want to stick with what we have now.  So, I'll make this map as a mod and offer it for those that want to use it.  You are correct in that the hill graphics are randomly dispersed and have no meaning other than aesthetics; for whatever reason that's how the original game was.  See http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1064090/anzio?size=original

[JudgeDredd]

^my god! did people actually play games that size?  :o

[jjdenver]

^my god! did people actually play games that size?  :o

Oh they still do. I know 3 guys here in Denver who have a huge monster game set up. For the life of me I can't recall the series name but it's 3 different games put together into 1 that spans a huge game area - bigger than a ping pong table. They've been going at it for a year now and are in 44 I think. It's funny because the guy running the Germans had a few panzer divisions in Africa doing nothing. I asked him why and he said his brain wasn't big enough to worry about Africa due to his worries in Russia so he shipped the panzers to Africa and then just had them sitting around haha. :)

[Arctic Blast]

^my god! did people actually play games that size?  :o

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4815/the-campaign-for-north-africa

Check that bad boy out, JD.

Playing time with 10 players is listed at 1200 hours.