More 4x gaming: Endless Space

[Bison]

not so much a hero to grammarians, typists and spell checkers everywhere...as I re-read my post. Holy typos.

If you could type grammatically correct English, you would probably not be employed as a steel baton swinger.  ;)

Yeah, I suppose as long as I am able to yell "Quit resisting!", the rest of my English and grammar skills are surplusage.

Unfortunately this very important skill won't make the combat in ES anymore exciting.

[Martok]

^  So *is* the combat system the main sticking point in Endless Space?  Any other major/fundamental weaknesses, or would you say that is, in fact, the "big issue"? 

[mikeck]

Its not for many, it is for others. I think everyone would agree that the UI is good, graphics are good for a 4x, planetary /sytem deveopment is good and relatively deep and the tech tree is good. That said, Diplomacy is lacking but is so in almost all 4x's.

Some people love the card based combat. To be clear, I'm not opposed to it so much as the way it is implemented. You have a very short time to pick the card and then you watch a "cut scene" of combat. You cant move the camera. Now, to be fair, others dont care.

You can get a good idea by watching the youtube videos...what you see is what you get.  I have seen very very few bugs.

[Bison]

^  So *is* the combat system the main sticking point in Endless Space?  Any other major/fundamental weaknesses, or would you say that is, in fact, the "big issue"? 

For me yes.  I just don't find it to be something I enjoy.  There are some other aspects of the game I don't really overly enjoy, but they are all like the combat just a matter of taste.

[tgb]

I like the combat, and the only change I would make to the system is make it so you could only use a card once per battle.  Some cards are overpowered if played 2 or 3 times.

[Bison]

There you have it.  Some people like the combat and some don't.  It comes down to a matter of taste.

[Huw the Poo]

Wading into the Great Combat Debate...

I've been cooling on Endless Space recently because, like mikeck, I tend to veer toward eXterminate in these games and combat just sounds boring as hell.  But then I watched this video and concluded that combat looks pretty exciting after all!  I think I'm going to put Endless Space right at the top of The List now.

[Nefaro]

The "tactical" combat is just fine.  I think the Total War addicts just want something more than a short card game as battle filler.

I like the concept for the combat, and do wish it had a bit more to it (even if it were just an extra couple play rounds).  But at the same time, I'm extremely happy that it's not a sh*tty RTS tac battle mini-game, with unchallenging AI, which drives me to just hitting the Auto-Battle button after a couple battles.  This 3-round "tactic" play is a nice medium between those two where you still have input but aren't wasting 30 minutes on an ambitious, but ultimately lame, tac battle facet. 

Nice quick resolution, and you still get to make a few choices and see stuff blow up.    :)  The big focus on these 4X games has always been campaign planning, and the past RTS or WEGO tac battles in them sucked.


I think the current big issues are the AI - especially concerning Diplomacy and in some races' cases - galactic expansion.    And some of the non-military/expansion victory conditions' requirements being too high (Diplo victory is the biggie here).

[Martok]

My concerns with the combat are as follows: 


1.)  Do the battle cards offer meaningful choices?  Thus far, my general impression (from both here and the ES forums) is that the answer is "no".  Most of what I've read indicates the larger (and/or more advanced) fleet is going to win pretty much every time, regardless of which cards (tactics) are used.  So what's the point of even having/using them? 

2.)  Camera view:  I keep reading that the camera view is severely restricted, and that the player is unable to select a different one.  If you're going to show us pretty-looking battles, shouldn't we at least be able to watch them from the angle/perspective we want? 

3.)  Ship sizes:  Most of what I've read indicates that bigger is always better, and that smaller ships effectively become obsolete once a larger chassis becomes available. 

[son_of_montfort]

BTW, did you see the Legend of Pegasus screens up on Steam. The planet development screen looks EXACTLY like Ascendency! Awesome!

[Martok]

BTW, did you see the Legend of Pegasus screens up on Steam. The planet development screen looks EXACTLY like Ascendency! Awesome!

Yeah, I've seen that screenshot before.  Look pretty damn cool. 

[Huw the Poo]

But at the same time, I'm extremely happy that it's not a sh*tty RTS tac battle mini-game, with unchallenging AI, which drives me to just hitting the Auto-Battle button after a couple battles.  This 3-round "tactic" play is a nice medium between those two where you still have input but aren't wasting 30 minutes on an ambitious, but ultimately lame, tac battle facet. 

Nice quick resolution, and you still get to make a few choices and see stuff blow up.

Well said.  I've watched some more videos in the meantime and I'm getting really excited about the game (again) now.  All I have to do is find one of those "job" things and I can buy it!

[Nefaro]

But at the same time, I'm extremely happy that it's not a sh*tty RTS tac battle mini-game, with unchallenging AI, which drives me to just hitting the Auto-Battle button after a couple battles.  This 3-round "tactic" play is a nice medium between those two where you still have input but aren't wasting 30 minutes on an ambitious, but ultimately lame, tac battle facet. 

Nice quick resolution, and you still get to make a few choices and see stuff blow up.

Well said.  I've watched some more videos in the meantime and I'm getting really excited about the game (again) now.  All I have to do is find one of those "job" things and I can buy it!

Thanks Huw.

No worries.  It's still in beta, and although it's quite well-done it does still have some tweaking to be done.  So perhaps by the time you rob a bank, or snatch a purse, stuff will be perfect.   ;D

Also note that a vote was given, by the dev team, about choosing between a few improvement options.   Adding a free camera to the battles was the winner, although I would've liked to see something a bit more gameplay-related done, myself.

[Huw the Poo]

Heh, that reminds me of our recent conversation about player suggestions. :)

[Nefaro]

Heh, that reminds me of our recent conversation about player suggestions. :)

LOL yeah.  Exactly!