DOOM

[Wingedflamez]

I will state this. There is no "alliance" between pythium and shinyu. I am alot of things but not a liar.

[parone]

also, I just gotta say this:

phobos' spells are great fun when you are the one casting them.  cast the global 'kindly ones' some time if you really want to annoy everyone.  I assure you, about the 6th time you kill off a really valuable mage of some enemy, you'll be squeeling with glee.  and while phobos is winning no friends, I bet he IS enjoying opening his turn files! :)

remember folks, we're supposed to be playing to have fun!

[Wingedflamez]

I am having fun. I love the circle logic I am putting myself through deciding where to strike and when. Who to talk to whi to ignore. Much better than SP or 2 player with AI.

[Haerdalas]

The kindly ones kill blood mages don't they?


...I have a rainbow mage pretender. He has blood magic - I cant use it due to having noone else to search for blood slaves, so it was kind of wasted, but that still means I have one vulnerable mage.

...If anyone casts that, he is getting a small army as bodyguards. Rainbow mages dying hurts even more than cap-only priest-mages dying.


And yeah, so much better than Single Player. Trying to work out if i can afford to attack any given player right now is fun. There is that constant knowledge that victory is a distant possibility, but that at any time someone else, through diplomacy, skill, luck w/e, can potentially kill you. You just don't get that in single player - unless you get attacked in the first 10 turns by multiple enemies, you never really lose single player.

[parone]

haerdalus-

if you cast it, they'll never attack your own mages.  one of the sisters likes attacking blood mages, the others have their own preferences.  i'm not sure if they attack pretenders...but losing a rainbow would be brutal, because you lose one level in all paths(yes, I've had the honor).

winger-very glad to hear you are having fun, that being the point.  I totally agree that MP owns SP.  much more interesting/stressfull.  I particularly like diplomacy, although i'm not all that successful with it. 

this game is pretty cool for me, as I am very much a minor power, with the big boys(jotun, pythium, shinu, pan) far ahead of me in all scores.  I generally am an excellent early expander, and am usually heavily engaged at this point.  however, I quite enjoy my current situation of trying to stay out from underfoot while attempting to close the gap.

[Haerdalas]

Ah, i always hesitated to cast it in single player due to not knowing if it hit your own mages. Good to know it doesn't.

Yeah, the loss of one level in all paths makes losing a rainbow mage infinitely worse than losing most pretenders - they typically only lose one or two levels total, rather than 6 or more.

Diplomacy is something I too enjoy greatly. I also like to think I am generally pretty good at it - good enough that I can sometimes talk my way out of situations I really should not have survived, though thankfully no such situations have occurred this game.

[Phobos]

Are Pythium and Shinuyama working together for a joint victory?  No.

Are they coordinating their efforts to remove all other major players from the game?  Yes.  Jotunheim was asked to join in on their attack on Pangaea around 20 ago.  Jotunheim declined.  The ultimate goal of the tag-team is probably to put off fighting each other for as long as possible, in effect removing all other players from contention, so they can duke it out with each other in peace.  Their deferral of a war against each other, while they systematically expand against minor nations, that they both just happen to agree are threats or easy targets, is a classic example of how dichotomous divisions form in RL geopolitics. 

I disagree the only way to fight this monopolisation of power is with another alliance.  The chaos of a free-for-all is far more satisfying.

I am not going to play politics and make friends.  Everyone is a target for Jotunheim.  I will not apologise for that, or use honeyed words to portray a different image for my nation in this game.  You can view that as condescending if you like, but you should at least appreciate my honesty.  I have made a choice to act and I will accept the consequences of this choice.  How will you choose?
       

[Haerdalas]

...I would like to point out that the whole alliance against Pangaea.... everyone was invited to that, because at the time Pan was far larger than any other nation. Pythium and Shinu have had an uneasy border for quite some time. I doubt they will be the last two nations standing, if only because one wipes the other out.

Anyway, it's 2AM here right now, so I need some sleep. Goodnight all.

[Wingedflamez]

I do not take your words as condecending. I think the difference between our thinking is this. I see everyone as a target because there is no shared victory. But I can work.to prevent being double teamed.

Because if nothing else was learned from real world warfare these 2 things have been. 1. Never get into a land war with Asia, and 2. trying to fight a 2 front war is the quickest way to get killed unless you are significantly larger than both of your opponents or you have vastly better defensive and offensive capabilities.

Also there is no reason to attack a target unless there is something to gain. I'm not completely sure but look at  C'Tis, I don't think they have gained any territory but I know they have been involved in a couple of fights which means they lost more than they have gained. So for them the pan attack was not worth it.

[alastair]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHx-kita75Y

[Wingedflamez]

Awesome.  I really need to watch that series, I keep meaning too and I get too caught up in other stuff.

Also I would like to point out that it is complete crap that I have not located a single territory with indy scouts.  That ruins like half of all my plans right there.  Very annoying.

[parone]

ok phob, I lobbed the 'condescending' bomb.  off the top of my head, here's why I 'view' it that way:

indicating that other players took part in a 'cowardly gangbang' to drop Pan.  that's condescending.   Pan was WAY too big to be handled alone.  but now you say other players have 'allowed' shinyu and pythium to grow too big?  which is it?  cowards for hitting pan, or not doing our job as world police on the others?  can't have it both ways...

I believe the term you used to describe the rest of us not chopping down Shinu and Pythium was 'craven fools'.  the idea that you see all and we have no clue?  that's condescending.

the idea that the rest of us are 'cheering on the tag team' of shinny and Pythium because we don't 'have a little foresight'?  that's condescending.

that idea that the rest of us are 'huddling in a corner waiting for death' ?  that's condescending.

let's see...

guilty
guilty
guilty
guilty.

I do agree, you're quite honest.  but mark my words, unless you get VERY good at this game, and then play against people who are VERY bad, you'll never win without playing the diplo game(unless, of course, you play a no diplo game, but that is another story :))

which is all quite fine.  but if you don't engage in diplo, don't complain about other's diplomatic decisions.  that's...

well, if I say what that is, i'll come across as condescending.  which would be pretty ironic.

[Phobos]

yes alastair.  the hopes and dreams of the whole world march with the armies of the Emerald Empire... ;)

You say this...and then this.

the idea that the rest of us are 'cheering on the tag team' of shinny and Pythium because we don't 'have a little foresight'?  that's condescending.

however, I quite enjoy my current situation of trying to stay out from underfoot while attempting to close the gap.

But you also say this...

that idea that the rest of us are 'huddling in a corner waiting for death' ?  that's condescending.

You're flip-flopping.  How political.  How diplomatic.  My position in this is simple and consistent; Everyone is an enemy, I'm going to fight you sooner or later, circumstances permitting.  I refuse to pretend differently, as that is how you actually win the game and get to view the victory message.  The game works this way by design.  If you want to pretend differently, you're either in for a rude awakening, or taking advantage of people.

You're about to see a major shift in the balance of power in the next few turns, because 2 of the bigger nations are fighting and a 3rd appears to be en route to join in as well.  It does not require great foresight to see a game defining turning-point is underway.  Picking sides and forming alliances might buy you some time, but it also buys your 'allies' some time as well.  Aggressively protecting your own interests at the expense of everyone else, might just create an opportunity for your nation to come out ahead once the dust clears.  If you meekly hide in the corner, I'll be here to tell you "I told you so," when the inevitable happens.

Getting caught up in alliances, diplomacy and promises, in the vain hope that someone else will politely let you win, or ignore you until you are ready to make your play, is not the way to achieve victory.  You don't need to have experience to figure that out for yourself.

This is not conceit or arrogance.  If my nation survives this conflict, I'm going to start picking other nations off, starting with the major threats first.  If the tag team survives, they are going to do the same before turning on each other, only there will be 2 of them you will need to worry about.   

   

[W8taminute]

I have to say after reading the past two pages of exchanges I agree with Phobos on one statement.  Better to die quickly than have a long drawn out death. 

When Vanheim was destroyed in this game it happened quickly.  I appreciate that actually.  There is nothing more frustrating then having a false hope and hanging on by a string while your killer toys with you.  At least I died fast and that was that.  I don't like what happened to Vanheim but at least the end was quick, releasing me for other adventures elsewhere.  (Assassins Creed II, which btw is a great game)

I saw it coming to and didn't bother to engage in begging for my life either.  What would have been the point?  I admit I reached out to my neighbors but I did it in an indirect way.  Had any of them been in the position to directly aid me militarily would I have survived to turn 45?  Doubtful in my view because I'm not that good a player at Dominions...yet.  What happened to me was ultimately for the best and I learned a thing or two.  Dominions is a great game.  It's fast, brutal, and believe it or not...honest. 

[alastair]

The emerald empire does not "Tag Team" with Goblins, Giants, or Humans.